Balfour Beatty announced as CWAC's contractor to build Barons Quay

An artist's impression of how the Odeon cinema will look at Barons Quay.

An artist's impression of how the Odeon cinema will look at Barons Quay.

First published in News
Last updated
Northwich Guardian: Photograph of the Author by , Chief Reporter

THE contractor set to change the face of Northwich town centre has been announced.

Balfour Beatty Construction Ltd has been appointed to build the £80million Barons Quay scheme, which includes an Asda supermarket and five-screen Odeon cinema.

Cheshire West and Chester Council’s (CWAC) executive group approved the appointment at their meeting on Wednesday, July 16.

The contract start date of September 1 will enable Balfour Beatty to start pre-site work in autumn with the first phase of the development expected to be completed by autumn 2016.

Clr Eveleigh Moore Dutton, CWAC’s executive member for resources, said: “The appointment of Balfour Beatty followed a rigorous selection procedure and I am delighted to welcome them on board.

“The company has a strong track record in delivering projects of this nature.

“This is a key milestone in the delivery of a major development project that will create jobs, vibrancy and prosperity, and ultimately transform Northwich into one of the north west’s busiest market towns.”

The 26-acre brownfield site will also include restaurants, shops, new public realm spaces and car parking.

The development is expected to create 1,200 jobs.

Clr Moore Dutton added: “We are committed to working with the companies to ensure as many of the jobs as possible go to local people, building on the success of Waitrose where 85 percent of the jobs were won by local people – 50 percent of whom were previously unemployed.”

The second sequence of Barons Quay, which includes further shops and residential units, is expected to be finished in 2017.

Clr Paul Dolan said: “The appointment of Balfour Beatty is excellent news for Northwich, bringing us another step closer to the long-awaited regeneration of our town.

“In just a few months’ time local residents will finally be able to see work starting on site as this neglected quarter of the town centre is transformed into something very exciting.

“It is important for the residents and traders in Northwich to know that during the construction phase all efforts will be made to minimise disruption in the town centre, including the provision of alternative, if temporary, parking provision.”

Comments (48)

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1:50pm Fri 18 Jul 14

onered says...

I hope they tackle the smelling drains as their first job. No excuse now C.W.AC. Council and United Utilities.
I hope they tackle the smelling drains as their first job. No excuse now C.W.AC. Council and United Utilities. onered
  • Score: -66

2:08pm Fri 18 Jul 14

WHS says...

I bet the supermarket is built first!!
WHS.
I bet the supermarket is built first!! WHS. WHS
  • Score: -90

3:12pm Fri 18 Jul 14

hectorplain says...

Barrons Key has always been a miserable, horrible, neglected part of the town.

It certainly needs revitalising, I wonder if it will get a tattoo parlour and tanning shop to keep the locals happy.
Barrons Key has always been a miserable, horrible, neglected part of the town. It certainly needs revitalising, I wonder if it will get a tattoo parlour and tanning shop to keep the locals happy. hectorplain
  • Score: 58

4:59pm Fri 18 Jul 14

techadmin says...

hectorplain... You again??
hectorplain... You again?? techadmin
  • Score: -62

5:37pm Fri 18 Jul 14

Andy Priestley says...

Superb news. Well done Balfour Beatty....now crack on ASAP!

Love how the other comments here are from negative doom gloomers. If you guys won the lottery you would moan about that as well!
Superb news. Well done Balfour Beatty....now crack on ASAP! Love how the other comments here are from negative doom gloomers. If you guys won the lottery you would moan about that as well! Andy Priestley
  • Score: -37

5:48pm Fri 18 Jul 14

Daniel18 says...

Brilliant, I can't wait for the work to start. I'm really looking forward to the cinema, restaurants, new shops & supermarket.

Barons Quay is the culmination of nearly 20-years work, its great to see money being invested in our town.
Brilliant, I can't wait for the work to start. I'm really looking forward to the cinema, restaurants, new shops & supermarket. Barons Quay is the culmination of nearly 20-years work, its great to see money being invested in our town. Daniel18
  • Score: -33

7:02pm Fri 18 Jul 14

onered says...

Andy Priestley wrote:
Superb news. Well done Balfour Beatty....now crack on ASAP!

Love how the other comments here are from negative doom gloomers. If you guys won the lottery you would moan about that as well!
I for one is very happy with the news that work is to start on the Barons Quay site.

C.W.A.C. & United Utilities have continued to use the delay in starting this Development for the reason for not tackling the awful smelly drains in the High Street / Witton Street area. With this situation is a wonder that even the Charity Shops have even been able to function which is a total and unacceptable disgrace.
[quote][p][bold]Andy Priestley[/bold] wrote: Superb news. Well done Balfour Beatty....now crack on ASAP! Love how the other comments here are from negative doom gloomers. If you guys won the lottery you would moan about that as well![/p][/quote]I for one is very happy with the news that work is to start on the Barons Quay site. C.W.A.C. & United Utilities have continued to use the delay in starting this Development for the reason for not tackling the awful smelly drains in the High Street / Witton Street area. With this situation is a wonder that even the Charity Shops have even been able to function which is a total and unacceptable disgrace. onered
  • Score: -66

7:03pm Fri 18 Jul 14

L Byrne says...

Whoopeee!

Eight more restaurants to add to the two that have been empty in the town for the last couple of years and an ASDA supermarket. Absolutely fantastic!

Great news for the charities that will have more places to choose from.

Besides fiddling the jobs figures , what the esteemed councillors will not talk about is that CWAC council's dabbling in the retail property development game is at council taxpayers' risk. And these guys always get it right. Don't they?
Whoopeee! Eight more restaurants to add to the two that have been empty in the town for the last couple of years and an ASDA supermarket. Absolutely fantastic! Great news for the charities that will have more places to choose from. Besides fiddling the jobs figures , what the esteemed councillors will not talk about is that CWAC council's dabbling in the retail property development game is at council taxpayers' risk. And these guys always get it right. Don't they? L Byrne
  • Score: -107

9:10pm Fri 18 Jul 14

hectorplain says...

Andy Priestley wrote:
Superb news. Well done Balfour Beatty....now crack on ASAP!

Love how the other comments here are from negative doom gloomers. If you guys won the lottery you would moan about that as well!
I never do the lottery, it's a mug's game, besides I never win anything anyway.
[quote][p][bold]Andy Priestley[/bold] wrote: Superb news. Well done Balfour Beatty....now crack on ASAP! Love how the other comments here are from negative doom gloomers. If you guys won the lottery you would moan about that as well![/p][/quote]I never do the lottery, it's a mug's game, besides I never win anything anyway. hectorplain
  • Score: 57

9:39pm Fri 18 Jul 14

L Byrne says...

In my excitement about the eight new restaurants, I forgot to mention the fantastic new multi-screen cinema.

According to the 'developers' that will attract 500,000 customers every year. On average that amounts to about 1,400 punters every single day, seven days a week. Holy mackerel! How are local roads going to cope? Maybe that explains why CWAC Council is spending millions on the gyratory system. Perhaps it is too shy to admit that it is expecting hordes of cinema goers to come flooding into Northwich every day from across the region to catch a movie at the new Odeon. Very clever.

As somebody once asked; " What are these guys smoking?"

PS when Tory and Labour councillors hold hands to extol the virtues of spending tax payers money on a dodgy project, check your wallet.
In my excitement about the eight new restaurants, I forgot to mention the fantastic new multi-screen cinema. According to the 'developers' that will attract 500,000 customers every year. On average that amounts to about 1,400 punters every single day, seven days a week. Holy mackerel! How are local roads going to cope? Maybe that explains why CWAC Council is spending millions on the gyratory system. Perhaps it is too shy to admit that it is expecting hordes of cinema goers to come flooding into Northwich every day from across the region to catch a movie at the new Odeon. Very clever. As somebody once asked; " What are these guys smoking?" PS when Tory and Labour councillors hold hands to extol the virtues of spending tax payers money on a dodgy project, check your wallet. L Byrne
  • Score: -86

6:26am Sat 19 Jul 14

Dave Dutch Holland says...

I don't see much investment in 'local' businesses.
Tesco, Aldi, Lidl, Sainsburys, Iceland, M & S, Co-op, Waitrose and now ASDA. thats nine supermarkets in one square mile, is this a record?
I don't see much investment in 'local' businesses. Tesco, Aldi, Lidl, Sainsburys, Iceland, M & S, Co-op, Waitrose and now ASDA. thats nine supermarkets in one square mile, is this a record? Dave Dutch Holland
  • Score: -83

10:55am Sat 19 Jul 14

L Byrne says...

Dave Dutch Holland wrote:
I don't see much investment in 'local' businesses.
Tesco, Aldi, Lidl, Sainsburys, Iceland, M & S, Co-op, Waitrose and now ASDA. thats nine supermarkets in one square mile, is this a record?
Dave

I think that you forgot Quality Save which is an excellent supermarket particularly for those who cannot afford or are unwilling to pay Sainsbury's or Waitrose prices. I hope that you would agree.

Unfortunately, Quality Save like the other small shops in the centre of the town, would be high on ASDA's list as targets for elimination. Aldi and Lidl are more than a match for this type of cut throat competition but it will be the little guys like the butchers and greengrocers who suffer.

That is what organisations like ASDA always do and the guys in CWAC Council who have successfully begged them to move in on Northwich town centre are perfectly aware of it and must take responsibility.
[quote][p][bold]Dave Dutch Holland[/bold] wrote: I don't see much investment in 'local' businesses. Tesco, Aldi, Lidl, Sainsburys, Iceland, M & S, Co-op, Waitrose and now ASDA. thats nine supermarkets in one square mile, is this a record?[/p][/quote]Dave I think that you forgot Quality Save which is an excellent supermarket particularly for those who cannot afford or are unwilling to pay Sainsbury's or Waitrose prices. I hope that you would agree. Unfortunately, Quality Save like the other small shops in the centre of the town, would be high on ASDA's list as targets for elimination. Aldi and Lidl are more than a match for this type of cut throat competition but it will be the little guys like the butchers and greengrocers who suffer. That is what organisations like ASDA always do and the guys in CWAC Council who have successfully begged them to move in on Northwich town centre are perfectly aware of it and must take responsibility. L Byrne
  • Score: -83

12:18pm Sat 19 Jul 14

hectorplain says...

Now is an ideal time to future-proof our town by forward planning.

I hope the planners have included ramps to all the shops so that we can get at the pies, pasties pizzas and burgers in our electric scooters without having to walk anywhere.

We need more fast food outlets to save us the trouble of cooking at home.

A tattoo parlour, tanning shop and cheap booze outlet is a must for any modern development to cater for the needs of the up and coming intelligentsia.

Also, the seats in that cinema must be extra wide to accommodate the new extra wide affluent clientele.
Now is an ideal time to future-proof our town by forward planning. I hope the planners have included ramps to all the shops so that we can get at the pies, pasties pizzas and burgers in our electric scooters without having to walk anywhere. We need more fast food outlets to save us the trouble of cooking at home. A tattoo parlour, tanning shop and cheap booze outlet is a must for any modern development to cater for the needs of the up and coming intelligentsia. Also, the seats in that cinema must be extra wide to accommodate the new extra wide affluent clientele. hectorplain
  • Score: 52

1:39pm Sat 19 Jul 14

hectorplain says...

Dave Dutch Holland wrote:
I don't see much investment in 'local' businesses.
Tesco, Aldi, Lidl, Sainsburys, Iceland, M & S, Co-op, Waitrose and now ASDA. thats nine supermarkets in one square mile, is this a record?
The days of the local shopkeeper are numbered.

Market forces will always prevail.

If people genuinely preferred the 'personal touch' regardless of cost then there would still be a grocers on every street corner.

We need all of the super market chains competing to get value for money.

Tesco shares are falling because of the German competition.

Aldi & Lidl hey diddle diddle.
The local keeper was on the fiddle.
[quote][p][bold]Dave Dutch Holland[/bold] wrote: I don't see much investment in 'local' businesses. Tesco, Aldi, Lidl, Sainsburys, Iceland, M & S, Co-op, Waitrose and now ASDA. thats nine supermarkets in one square mile, is this a record?[/p][/quote]The days of the local shopkeeper are numbered. Market forces will always prevail. If people genuinely preferred the 'personal touch' regardless of cost then there would still be a grocers on every street corner. We need all of the super market chains competing to get value for money. Tesco shares are falling because of the German competition. Aldi & Lidl hey diddle diddle. The local keeper was on the fiddle. hectorplain
  • Score: 37

12:12am Sun 20 Jul 14

47thmoon says...

obviously lots to entertain us while we wait for the promised "Affordable" housing to be built save the spare room subsidy?
obviously lots to entertain us while we wait for the promised "Affordable" housing to be built save the spare room subsidy? 47thmoon
  • Score: -69

9:14am Sun 20 Jul 14

n00btastica says...

L Byrne wrote:
Whoopeee!

Eight more restaurants to add to the two that have been empty in the town for the last couple of years and an ASDA supermarket. Absolutely fantastic!

Great news for the charities that will have more places to choose from.

Besides fiddling the jobs figures , what the esteemed councillors will not talk about is that CWAC council's dabbling in the retail property development game is at council taxpayers' risk. And these guys always get it right. Don't they?
Part of the reason CWAC are having to fund the development and build it out themselves is their inability to obtain insurance on the land above the re mediated salt mines

CWAC are also dabbling at retail development in Chester and a number of developers have pulled out as commercially the scheme doesn't stack up.

CWAC have duly ignored this and are plodding on regardless.

I really do hope the development brings much needed trade and further investment to Northwich but the road and public transport infrastructure needed to serve the area is the key to its success and the introduction of the gyratory is far from dealing with the problem ...........
[quote][p][bold]L Byrne[/bold] wrote: Whoopeee! Eight more restaurants to add to the two that have been empty in the town for the last couple of years and an ASDA supermarket. Absolutely fantastic! Great news for the charities that will have more places to choose from. Besides fiddling the jobs figures , what the esteemed councillors will not talk about is that CWAC council's dabbling in the retail property development game is at council taxpayers' risk. And these guys always get it right. Don't they?[/p][/quote]Part of the reason CWAC are having to fund the development and build it out themselves is their inability to obtain insurance on the land above the re mediated salt mines CWAC are also dabbling at retail development in Chester and a number of developers have pulled out as commercially the scheme doesn't stack up. CWAC have duly ignored this and are plodding on regardless. I really do hope the development brings much needed trade and further investment to Northwich but the road and public transport infrastructure needed to serve the area is the key to its success and the introduction of the gyratory is far from dealing with the problem ........... n00btastica
  • Score: -40

12:07am Mon 21 Jul 14

L Byrne says...

The number of negative ticks on my original comment above is currently running at 54. That is a record on this website and is clear evidence that a nerve has been touched and there is orchestrated trolling going on by supporters of the current Barons Quay scheme, all of whom are too embarrassed to give their names. I wonder who they could be. Surely not CWAC Councillors who have been given party orders to toe the line because they want bragging rights in time for next year's council elections before Nigel and his friends arrive on the local scene.

The reasons for my shy opponents anxiety is easy to understand. They must realise that the commercial case for the entire current scheme is based on ludicrous assumptions, such as latent demand for eight additional restaurants in the town centre, and there is an almost certain probability that the whole project would become an expensive white elephant that would make Northwich a laughing stock and blight its future.

The very worrying truth is that proper experienced well financed commercial property development companies are aware of CWAC's ambitions for the site but have refused to have anything to do with it for the reasons nOObtastica mentions above and others. ' 40 foot barge poles' comes to mind. But the renowned retail property development experts in the council have not got the message and are evidently determined to gamble £60million of our money to back their hunch.

It occurs to me that many of the residents who will have to pick up part of the tab for this ridiculous adventure in property speculation are constituents of George Osborne, Chancellor of the Exchequer. Perhaps he should get himself involved. Surely councillors or officials can't sign up to a crazy deal of this scale and walk away?
The number of negative ticks on my original comment above is currently running at 54. That is a record on this website and is clear evidence that a nerve has been touched and there is orchestrated trolling going on by supporters of the current Barons Quay scheme, all of whom are too embarrassed to give their names. I wonder who they could be. Surely not CWAC Councillors who have been given party orders to toe the line because they want bragging rights in time for next year's council elections before Nigel and his friends arrive on the local scene. The reasons for my shy opponents anxiety is easy to understand. They must realise that the commercial case for the entire current scheme is based on ludicrous assumptions, such as latent demand for eight additional restaurants in the town centre, and there is an almost certain probability that the whole project would become an expensive white elephant that would make Northwich a laughing stock and blight its future. The very worrying truth is that proper experienced well financed commercial property development companies are aware of CWAC's ambitions for the site but have refused to have anything to do with it for the reasons nOObtastica mentions above and others. ' 40 foot barge poles' comes to mind. But the renowned retail property development experts in the council have not got the message and are evidently determined to gamble £60million of our money to back their hunch. It occurs to me that many of the residents who will have to pick up part of the tab for this ridiculous adventure in property speculation are constituents of George Osborne, Chancellor of the Exchequer. Perhaps he should get himself involved. Surely councillors or officials can't sign up to a crazy deal of this scale and walk away? L Byrne
  • Score: -50

8:34am Mon 21 Jul 14

Anonamatty says...

L Byrne

I think we can safely ignore the thumbs up/down on this website now. Most of hectorplains comments are ludicrous and yet one such comment on here went from -8 to +15 in less than an hour.

A serious case of voting oneself up!
L Byrne I think we can safely ignore the thumbs up/down on this website now. Most of hectorplains comments are ludicrous and yet one such comment on here went from -8 to +15 in less than an hour. A serious case of voting oneself up! Anonamatty
  • Score: -39

10:28am Mon 21 Jul 14

L Byrne says...

Anonamatty wrote:
L Byrne

I think we can safely ignore the thumbs up/down on this website now. Most of hectorplains comments are ludicrous and yet one such comment on here went from -8 to +15 in less than an hour.

A serious case of voting oneself up!
You might be right although it would be going a bit far even for Hector.

I am still more inclined to believe that the 'thumbs downs' have come from the fantasists ( or con artists) who really believe that CWAC Council should be spending £60million on a project that involves building 8 new restaurants in Northwich.

Is there one single resident in the town who truly believes that the Council should be spending our money on such a stupid idea.
[quote][p][bold]Anonamatty[/bold] wrote: L Byrne I think we can safely ignore the thumbs up/down on this website now. Most of hectorplains comments are ludicrous and yet one such comment on here went from -8 to +15 in less than an hour. A serious case of voting oneself up![/p][/quote]You might be right although it would be going a bit far even for Hector. I am still more inclined to believe that the 'thumbs downs' have come from the fantasists ( or con artists) who really believe that CWAC Council should be spending £60million on a project that involves building 8 new restaurants in Northwich. Is there one single resident in the town who truly believes that the Council should be spending our money on such a stupid idea. L Byrne
  • Score: -42

6:58pm Mon 21 Jul 14

j@northwich says...

Ignore the "Thumbs up". "Thumbs down" rigmarole, make your own descision based on personal requirements and beliefs. Not every one wants the same.
Ignore the "Thumbs up". "Thumbs down" rigmarole, make your own descision based on personal requirements and beliefs. Not every one wants the same. j@northwich
  • Score: -39

7:09pm Mon 21 Jul 14

Daniel18 says...

L Byrne wrote:
Anonamatty wrote:
L Byrne

I think we can safely ignore the thumbs up/down on this website now. Most of hectorplains comments are ludicrous and yet one such comment on here went from -8 to +15 in less than an hour.

A serious case of voting oneself up!
You might be right although it would be going a bit far even for Hector.

I am still more inclined to believe that the 'thumbs downs' have come from the fantasists ( or con artists) who really believe that CWAC Council should be spending £60million on a project that involves building 8 new restaurants in Northwich.

Is there one single resident in the town who truly believes that the Council should be spending our money on such a stupid idea.
Anonamatty - I cannot agree more - it doesn't take a genius to work out that Hector seems to be voting for his own ludicrous statements.

L Byrne - I am a resident in Northwich and I am more than happy that the council are taking this development forward - I can't wait until the building work begins on September 1.
There are also many other residents from Northwich who are in favor of the development, many of whom have voiced their opinions on this website.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and just because they vary from your's doesn't mean that there is a conspiracy, or that something is wrong.
At the end of the day Barons Quay is going to happen whether you like it or not - the planning has been approved, the contractor has been selected, and some of the units have been let.
[quote][p][bold]L Byrne[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Anonamatty[/bold] wrote: L Byrne I think we can safely ignore the thumbs up/down on this website now. Most of hectorplains comments are ludicrous and yet one such comment on here went from -8 to +15 in less than an hour. A serious case of voting oneself up![/p][/quote]You might be right although it would be going a bit far even for Hector. I am still more inclined to believe that the 'thumbs downs' have come from the fantasists ( or con artists) who really believe that CWAC Council should be spending £60million on a project that involves building 8 new restaurants in Northwich. Is there one single resident in the town who truly believes that the Council should be spending our money on such a stupid idea.[/p][/quote]Anonamatty - I cannot agree more - it doesn't take a genius to work out that Hector seems to be voting for his own ludicrous statements. L Byrne - I am a resident in Northwich and I am more than happy that the council are taking this development forward - I can't wait until the building work begins on September 1. There are also many other residents from Northwich who are in favor of the development, many of whom have voiced their opinions on this website. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and just because they vary from your's doesn't mean that there is a conspiracy, or that something is wrong. At the end of the day Barons Quay is going to happen whether you like it or not - the planning has been approved, the contractor has been selected, and some of the units have been let. Daniel18
  • Score: -21

7:15pm Mon 21 Jul 14

Chesnews says...

Lets face it the road infrastructure in northwich won't take it once all the 5,500 already approved houses and barons quay development are done!
New roundabout at top of town is having 8 sets of traffic lights that's really going to get the traffic moving NOT!

CWAC. Are living in cloud cookoo land ! Lets have another local government shake up and get rid CWAC. Bring back VALE ROYAL at least they listened to people and not rode roughshot over everything!
The quicker we get rid of CWAC the better!
Lets face it the road infrastructure in northwich won't take it once all the 5,500 already approved houses and barons quay development are done! New roundabout at top of town is having 8 sets of traffic lights that's really going to get the traffic moving NOT! CWAC. Are living in cloud cookoo land ! Lets have another local government shake up and get rid CWAC. Bring back VALE ROYAL at least they listened to people and not rode roughshot over everything! The quicker we get rid of CWAC the better! Chesnews
  • Score: -44

7:39pm Mon 21 Jul 14

Daniel18 says...

Chesnews wrote:
Lets face it the road infrastructure in northwich won't take it once all the 5,500 already approved houses and barons quay development are done!
New roundabout at top of town is having 8 sets of traffic lights that's really going to get the traffic moving NOT!

CWAC. Are living in cloud cookoo land ! Lets have another local government shake up and get rid CWAC. Bring back VALE ROYAL at least they listened to people and not rode roughshot over everything!
The quicker we get rid of CWAC the better!
Vale Royal were planning exactly the same as CWAC. It was VR who originally proposed the Gyratory system, and many of the homes currently under construction (Inc Winnington Urban Village) were approved whiles they were in Government
[quote][p][bold]Chesnews[/bold] wrote: Lets face it the road infrastructure in northwich won't take it once all the 5,500 already approved houses and barons quay development are done! New roundabout at top of town is having 8 sets of traffic lights that's really going to get the traffic moving NOT! CWAC. Are living in cloud cookoo land ! Lets have another local government shake up and get rid CWAC. Bring back VALE ROYAL at least they listened to people and not rode roughshot over everything! The quicker we get rid of CWAC the better![/p][/quote]Vale Royal were planning exactly the same as CWAC. It was VR who originally proposed the Gyratory system, and many of the homes currently under construction (Inc Winnington Urban Village) were approved whiles they were in Government Daniel18
  • Score: -9

7:47pm Mon 21 Jul 14

Chesnews says...

Hi Northwich guardian just to let you know your thumbs up thumbs down has lost all its credibility! It's being hacked or people are wiping out there history or cookies and signing on again! The later gives you the option of doing it Countless times here's my own version. If I were you I think it would be better to remove this function all together!

Score. +2000 👍 👎
Hi Northwich guardian just to let you know your thumbs up thumbs down has lost all its credibility! It's being hacked or people are wiping out there history or cookies and signing on again! The later gives you the option of doing it Countless times here's my own version. If I were you I think it would be better to remove this function all together! Score. +2000 👍 👎 Chesnews
  • Score: -27

7:56pm Mon 21 Jul 14

Kit Kat Koo says...

L Byrne wrote:
The number of negative ticks on my original comment above is currently running at 54. That is a record on this website and is clear evidence that a nerve has been touched and there is orchestrated trolling going on by supporters of the current Barons Quay scheme, all of whom are too embarrassed to give their names. I wonder who they could be. Surely not CWAC Councillors who have been given party orders to toe the line because they want bragging rights in time for next year's council elections before Nigel and his friends arrive on the local scene.

The reasons for my shy opponents anxiety is easy to understand. They must realise that the commercial case for the entire current scheme is based on ludicrous assumptions, such as latent demand for eight additional restaurants in the town centre, and there is an almost certain probability that the whole project would become an expensive white elephant that would make Northwich a laughing stock and blight its future.

The very worrying truth is that proper experienced well financed commercial property development companies are aware of CWAC's ambitions for the site but have refused to have anything to do with it for the reasons nOObtastica mentions above and others. ' 40 foot barge poles' comes to mind. But the renowned retail property development experts in the council have not got the message and are evidently determined to gamble £60million of our money to back their hunch.

It occurs to me that many of the residents who will have to pick up part of the tab for this ridiculous adventure in property speculation are constituents of George Osborne, Chancellor of the Exchequer. Perhaps he should get himself involved. Surely councillors or officials can't sign up to a crazy deal of this scale and walk away?
Nigel and his friends have arrived in the area, they recently fielded a candidate in the Castle and Winington ward, taking 13% of the Labour vote and 6% of the Tory vote, in total their candidate (who enjoyed a meal in the Cheshire Tandoori with Farage in February) polled 23%, enough to secure a seat in next Mays local elections.
[quote][p][bold]L Byrne[/bold] wrote: The number of negative ticks on my original comment above is currently running at 54. That is a record on this website and is clear evidence that a nerve has been touched and there is orchestrated trolling going on by supporters of the current Barons Quay scheme, all of whom are too embarrassed to give their names. I wonder who they could be. Surely not CWAC Councillors who have been given party orders to toe the line because they want bragging rights in time for next year's council elections before Nigel and his friends arrive on the local scene. The reasons for my shy opponents anxiety is easy to understand. They must realise that the commercial case for the entire current scheme is based on ludicrous assumptions, such as latent demand for eight additional restaurants in the town centre, and there is an almost certain probability that the whole project would become an expensive white elephant that would make Northwich a laughing stock and blight its future. The very worrying truth is that proper experienced well financed commercial property development companies are aware of CWAC's ambitions for the site but have refused to have anything to do with it for the reasons nOObtastica mentions above and others. ' 40 foot barge poles' comes to mind. But the renowned retail property development experts in the council have not got the message and are evidently determined to gamble £60million of our money to back their hunch. It occurs to me that many of the residents who will have to pick up part of the tab for this ridiculous adventure in property speculation are constituents of George Osborne, Chancellor of the Exchequer. Perhaps he should get himself involved. Surely councillors or officials can't sign up to a crazy deal of this scale and walk away?[/p][/quote]Nigel and his friends have arrived in the area, they recently fielded a candidate in the Castle and Winington ward, taking 13% of the Labour vote and 6% of the Tory vote, in total their candidate (who enjoyed a meal in the Cheshire Tandoori with Farage in February) polled 23%, enough to secure a seat in next Mays local elections. Kit Kat Koo
  • Score: -37

8:08pm Mon 21 Jul 14

Chesnews says...

Many of the homes were not approved Daniel. Only the 1200 houses at Winnington were! not the extra. 4300 of. 5,500 total houses.

And Vale Royal tested a gyratory many many years ago and found it did not work! They didn't approve this gyratory as Vale Royal Council did not exist! Two years ago!

And I think you mean CWAC were planning the same as Vale Royal not the other way round!
Many of the homes were not approved Daniel. Only the 1200 houses at Winnington were! not the extra. 4300 of. 5,500 total houses. And Vale Royal tested a gyratory many many years ago and found it did not work! They didn't approve this gyratory as Vale Royal Council did not exist! Two years ago! And I think you mean CWAC were planning the same as Vale Royal not the other way round! Chesnews
  • Score: -37

8:13pm Mon 21 Jul 14

hectorplain says...

The voting system forms the basis of our democratic system.

Unless you can think of something better it looks like we are stuck with it - even if it does not produce the results you want.
The voting system forms the basis of our democratic system. Unless you can think of something better it looks like we are stuck with it - even if it does not produce the results you want. hectorplain
  • Score: 32

8:21pm Mon 21 Jul 14

nicksey says...

Despite the bigging up of CWAC plans by certain deluded contributors on here it is a sad fact that Northwich is currently in the worst shape it has been for a long time. Shoppers are avoiding the town centre, residents are fed up with the traffic jams and queues, traders have had enough. CWAC seem to have taken the view that the short term (3 months) misery is worth it in the long run. It will get even worse before there is any chance of it getting better and by then it may be too late for many traders who are suffering. But, this is just the beginning of the misery as the Barons Quay redevelopment brings new buildings and shops whilst hurting the remaining businesses in town. CWAC either haven't thought it through properly or just don't care about the effect this is having on many.
Despite the bigging up of CWAC plans by certain deluded contributors on here it is a sad fact that Northwich is currently in the worst shape it has been for a long time. Shoppers are avoiding the town centre, residents are fed up with the traffic jams and queues, traders have had enough. CWAC seem to have taken the view that the short term (3 months) misery is worth it in the long run. It will get even worse before there is any chance of it getting better and by then it may be too late for many traders who are suffering. But, this is just the beginning of the misery as the Barons Quay redevelopment brings new buildings and shops whilst hurting the remaining businesses in town. CWAC either haven't thought it through properly or just don't care about the effect this is having on many. nicksey
  • Score: -39

8:24pm Mon 21 Jul 14

Daniel18 says...

Chesnews wrote:
Many of the homes were not approved Daniel. Only the 1200 houses at Winnington were! not the extra. 4300 of. 5,500 total houses.

And Vale Royal tested a gyratory many many years ago and found it did not work! They didn't approve this gyratory as Vale Royal Council did not exist! Two years ago!

And I think you mean CWAC were planning the same as Vale Royal not the other way round!
If you took time to look at the plans VR produced you would find that it was them who proposed the Gyratory after the government refused to fund an additional bridge
[quote][p][bold]Chesnews[/bold] wrote: Many of the homes were not approved Daniel. Only the 1200 houses at Winnington were! not the extra. 4300 of. 5,500 total houses. And Vale Royal tested a gyratory many many years ago and found it did not work! They didn't approve this gyratory as Vale Royal Council did not exist! Two years ago! And I think you mean CWAC were planning the same as Vale Royal not the other way round![/p][/quote]If you took time to look at the plans VR produced you would find that it was them who proposed the Gyratory after the government refused to fund an additional bridge Daniel18
  • Score: -17

10:01pm Mon 21 Jul 14

L Byrne says...

Daniel18 wrote:
L Byrne wrote:
Anonamatty wrote:
L Byrne

I think we can safely ignore the thumbs up/down on this website now. Most of hectorplains comments are ludicrous and yet one such comment on here went from -8 to +15 in less than an hour.

A serious case of voting oneself up!
You might be right although it would be going a bit far even for Hector.

I am still more inclined to believe that the 'thumbs downs' have come from the fantasists ( or con artists) who really believe that CWAC Council should be spending £60million on a project that involves building 8 new restaurants in Northwich.

Is there one single resident in the town who truly believes that the Council should be spending our money on such a stupid idea.
Anonamatty - I cannot agree more - it doesn't take a genius to work out that Hector seems to be voting for his own ludicrous statements.

L Byrne - I am a resident in Northwich and I am more than happy that the council are taking this development forward - I can't wait until the building work begins on September 1.
There are also many other residents from Northwich who are in favor of the development, many of whom have voiced their opinions on this website.
Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and just because they vary from your's doesn't mean that there is a conspiracy, or that something is wrong.
At the end of the day Barons Quay is going to happen whether you like it or not - the planning has been approved, the contractor has been selected, and some of the units have been let.
Daniel18

I am also a resident of Northwich and have a strong belief that the redevelopment of Barons Quay is vital for the town's future and a once in a generation opportunity to transform the area into something that we can all take pride in. Instead we have a bunch of small time politicians serving up a scheme built around a supermarket at least ten years behind the times, eight more restaurants when the two that we already have are derelict through lack of customers and a multi-screen cinema complex that assumes it will be 100% full almost every day of the year. It it any wonder that normal commercial property developers were not prepared to invest their money in the project when they were invited and CWAC council are being forced to gamble hard earned tax payers cash instead. £80million of it. Banana republic economics.

Contrary to what you say, it is not too late to avert this complete shambles. The contract with Balfour Beatty has not yet completed its final stage and the senior council officials who have to sign on the dotted line have a responsibility to be sure that the unlikely claims made by the project advocates (EIGHT MORE RESTAURANTS - ARE OFF THEIR ROCKERS?) have been validated and the well known tendencies of politicians to splash other peoples cash for their political gain have been avoided.

The guys at the top of both political parties on CWAC Council apparently think that their way is the only way on this one. In truth, there are so many ways that Baron's Quay could be made the most attractive piece of river frontage in Cheshire at far lower cost and far greater potential benefit to residents and businesses in the town. What a waste of a golden opportunity. It will not be forgotten.
[quote][p][bold]Daniel18[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]L Byrne[/bold] wrote: [quote][p][bold]Anonamatty[/bold] wrote: L Byrne I think we can safely ignore the thumbs up/down on this website now. Most of hectorplains comments are ludicrous and yet one such comment on here went from -8 to +15 in less than an hour. A serious case of voting oneself up![/p][/quote]You might be right although it would be going a bit far even for Hector. I am still more inclined to believe that the 'thumbs downs' have come from the fantasists ( or con artists) who really believe that CWAC Council should be spending £60million on a project that involves building 8 new restaurants in Northwich. Is there one single resident in the town who truly believes that the Council should be spending our money on such a stupid idea.[/p][/quote]Anonamatty - I cannot agree more - it doesn't take a genius to work out that Hector seems to be voting for his own ludicrous statements. L Byrne - I am a resident in Northwich and I am more than happy that the council are taking this development forward - I can't wait until the building work begins on September 1. There are also many other residents from Northwich who are in favor of the development, many of whom have voiced their opinions on this website. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, and just because they vary from your's doesn't mean that there is a conspiracy, or that something is wrong. At the end of the day Barons Quay is going to happen whether you like it or not - the planning has been approved, the contractor has been selected, and some of the units have been let.[/p][/quote]Daniel18 I am also a resident of Northwich and have a strong belief that the redevelopment of Barons Quay is vital for the town's future and a once in a generation opportunity to transform the area into something that we can all take pride in. Instead we have a bunch of small time politicians serving up a scheme built around a supermarket at least ten years behind the times, eight more restaurants when the two that we already have are derelict through lack of customers and a multi-screen cinema complex that assumes it will be 100% full almost every day of the year. It it any wonder that normal commercial property developers were not prepared to invest their money in the project when they were invited and CWAC council are being forced to gamble hard earned tax payers cash instead. £80million of it. Banana republic economics. Contrary to what you say, it is not too late to avert this complete shambles. The contract with Balfour Beatty has not yet completed its final stage and the senior council officials who have to sign on the dotted line have a responsibility to be sure that the unlikely claims made by the project advocates (EIGHT MORE RESTAURANTS - ARE OFF THEIR ROCKERS?) have been validated and the well known tendencies of politicians to splash other peoples cash for their political gain have been avoided. The guys at the top of both political parties on CWAC Council apparently think that their way is the only way on this one. In truth, there are so many ways that Baron's Quay could be made the most attractive piece of river frontage in Cheshire at far lower cost and far greater potential benefit to residents and businesses in the town. What a waste of a golden opportunity. It will not be forgotten. L Byrne
  • Score: -27

1:56pm Wed 23 Jul 14

joeyfisher says...

Many people who live in the Northwich area not only work furtherafield but also spend their money in places such as Warrington/Chester/C
heshire Oaks and Altrincham. What Northwich needs is for people to be attracted back to the town to spend their money here and that means a Barons Quay type development, because this is currently what is attracting people away.
If I need a supermarket or a few odds and ends I always travel to Northwch. For everything else the choice is so poor I have to travel elsewhere
Many people who live in the Northwich area not only work furtherafield but also spend their money in places such as Warrington/Chester/C heshire Oaks and Altrincham. What Northwich needs is for people to be attracted back to the town to spend their money here and that means a Barons Quay type development, because this is currently what is attracting people away. If I need a supermarket or a few odds and ends I always travel to Northwch. For everything else the choice is so poor I have to travel elsewhere joeyfisher
  • Score: 10

4:17pm Wed 23 Jul 14

techadmin says...

Once the Barons Quay Developement is completed, will there still be free parking? I have a feeling that CWAC and the local Council will jump on the band wagon and start charging for parking. Time will tell.
Once the Barons Quay Developement is completed, will there still be free parking? I have a feeling that CWAC and the local Council will jump on the band wagon and start charging for parking. Time will tell. techadmin
  • Score: 8

7:02pm Wed 23 Jul 14

Daniel18 says...

techadmin wrote:
Once the Barons Quay Developement is completed, will there still be free parking? I have a feeling that CWAC and the local Council will jump on the band wagon and start charging for parking. Time will tell.
As part of the plans CWaC have stated that the free parking will continue.

joeyfisher - Cannot agree more
[quote][p][bold]techadmin[/bold] wrote: Once the Barons Quay Developement is completed, will there still be free parking? I have a feeling that CWAC and the local Council will jump on the band wagon and start charging for parking. Time will tell.[/p][/quote]As part of the plans CWaC have stated that the free parking will continue. joeyfisher - Cannot agree more Daniel18
  • Score: 8

3:02am Thu 24 Jul 14

I am not a Trainspotter says...

Well another business went bust this week. Macks music in the indoor market. Reason significant drop of foot fall since the Gyratory opened. A cinema is great but turning Northwich into a newer version of Runcorn shopping city at the expense of all the small/interesting/ni
che retailers was always going to be a bad idea.
Well another business went bust this week. Macks music in the indoor market. Reason significant drop of foot fall since the Gyratory opened. A cinema is great but turning Northwich into a newer version of Runcorn shopping city at the expense of all the small/interesting/ni che retailers was always going to be a bad idea. I am not a Trainspotter
  • Score: -14

6:46pm Thu 24 Jul 14

Chesnews says...

Parking won't be totally free as ASDA operate a 3hr smart eye parking fine system - as most of the barons quay parking spaces are being transferred to the top of ASDA. So for instance someone wanting to park and not visit ASDA - they might be in a little bit of trouble for example

Go for a drink before taking in a film at the new multiplex then ultimately taking in some food at one the eight empty restaurants definitely going to be more than 3 hours and ASDA smart eye system will charge you £40 and then. £70 After 14 days if not paid.
Parking won't be totally free as ASDA operate a 3hr smart eye parking fine system - as most of the barons quay parking spaces are being transferred to the top of ASDA. So for instance someone wanting to park and not visit ASDA - they might be in a little bit of trouble for example Go for a drink before taking in a film at the new multiplex then ultimately taking in some food at one the eight empty restaurants definitely going to be more than 3 hours and ASDA smart eye system will charge you £40 and then. £70 After 14 days if not paid. Chesnews
  • Score: -14

9:44pm Thu 24 Jul 14

Daniel18 says...

Chesnews wrote:
Parking won't be totally free as ASDA operate a 3hr smart eye parking fine system - as most of the barons quay parking spaces are being transferred to the top of ASDA. So for instance someone wanting to park and not visit ASDA - they might be in a little bit of trouble for example

Go for a drink before taking in a film at the new multiplex then ultimately taking in some food at one the eight empty restaurants definitely going to be more than 3 hours and ASDA smart eye system will charge you £40 and then. £70 After 14 days if not paid.
No, CWAC have stated that they will own and maintain the car park, which is on top of Asda and about 8 other shops.
There is already a 3 hour time limit in place on barons quay car park, along with wardens who fine drivers who break the rules
[quote][p][bold]Chesnews[/bold] wrote: Parking won't be totally free as ASDA operate a 3hr smart eye parking fine system - as most of the barons quay parking spaces are being transferred to the top of ASDA. So for instance someone wanting to park and not visit ASDA - they might be in a little bit of trouble for example Go for a drink before taking in a film at the new multiplex then ultimately taking in some food at one the eight empty restaurants definitely going to be more than 3 hours and ASDA smart eye system will charge you £40 and then. £70 After 14 days if not paid.[/p][/quote]No, CWAC have stated that they will own and maintain the car park, which is on top of Asda and about 8 other shops. There is already a 3 hour time limit in place on barons quay car park, along with wardens who fine drivers who break the rules Daniel18
  • Score: 8

2:08pm Fri 25 Jul 14

Iadach says...

Wow L Byrne, you're clearly an expert on architecture, town planning, property development and urban regeneration. How do you find time to make so many posts on here? With so many strings to your bow surely you have a multitude of highly successful projects of your own on the go? With all those amateurs that local government are renowned for letting loose on major construction projects surely councils have sent you begging letters from all over the country, desperate for guru-like knowledge and wisdom as you clearly know better than them…
To randomly build several restaurants in Northwich as it is now would be stupidity. As part of a large integrated river front retail/leisure development it makes perfect sense. The whole thing works together to create demand and interest but it connects to the existing town centre; it adds to it, not takes away from it like a retail park for example.
The last time I had a meal in Northwich wasn't in the town centre, it was in Turturici in Davenham; attractive surroundings and a couple of pubs nearby rather than a closed town centre – there was interest in being there. I'd have quite happily sat by the river on the other hand, overlooking a new public space along with cinema-goers and people out for a drink or meal. The setting, the space and the combined interest, particularly if the shops are open later too, that’s what makes this scheme viable. There is also the residential and hotel element so there will actually be a permanent and transient community in situ. Also don’t forget about all the housing schemes that have been given the go ahead in and around Northwich; the population is going to grow considerably in the next few years.
As the scheme will be well connected to the existing town centre hopefully The Beehive and The Former Amber Lounge (or Wine Bar going further back, which is being renovated and has a beer garden to the rear which will link nicely with the newly pedestrianised Weaver Way alongside the river) will be viable to reopen as pubs again. The Bull Ring looks as though that is in the process of having the pedestrian domain enlarged (I'm not sure, just going off being nosy while driving past; I don't like to mislead) which along with the development can only be good for the prospects of the former restaurant and bar that sits next to Nat West, along with the one on the corner of Apple Market Street. Just look at the plans, there easy to find online. There are no supermarkets on the river front as has previously been claimed, just a park, public open space & leisure uses. How terrible.
Wow L Byrne, you're clearly an expert on architecture, town planning, property development and urban regeneration. How do you find time to make so many posts on here? With so many strings to your bow surely you have a multitude of highly successful projects of your own on the go? With all those amateurs that local government are renowned for letting loose on major construction projects surely councils have sent you begging letters from all over the country, desperate for guru-like knowledge and wisdom as you clearly know better than them… To randomly build several restaurants in Northwich as it is now would be stupidity. As part of a large integrated river front retail/leisure development it makes perfect sense. The whole thing works together to create demand and interest but it connects to the existing town centre; it adds to it, not takes away from it like a retail park for example. The last time I had a meal in Northwich wasn't in the town centre, it was in Turturici in Davenham; attractive surroundings and a couple of pubs nearby rather than a closed town centre – there was interest in being there. I'd have quite happily sat by the river on the other hand, overlooking a new public space along with cinema-goers and people out for a drink or meal. The setting, the space and the combined interest, particularly if the shops are open later too, that’s what makes this scheme viable. There is also the residential and hotel element so there will actually be a permanent and transient community in situ. Also don’t forget about all the housing schemes that have been given the go ahead in and around Northwich; the population is going to grow considerably in the next few years. As the scheme will be well connected to the existing town centre hopefully The Beehive and The Former Amber Lounge (or Wine Bar going further back, which is being renovated and has a beer garden to the rear which will link nicely with the newly pedestrianised Weaver Way alongside the river) will be viable to reopen as pubs again. The Bull Ring looks as though that is in the process of having the pedestrian domain enlarged (I'm not sure, just going off being nosy while driving past; I don't like to mislead) which along with the development can only be good for the prospects of the former restaurant and bar that sits next to Nat West, along with the one on the corner of Apple Market Street. Just look at the plans, there easy to find online. There are no supermarkets on the river front as has previously been claimed, just a park, public open space & leisure uses. How terrible. Iadach
  • Score: 28

1:05pm Sat 26 Jul 14

L Byrne says...

ladach

The 'experts' on this matter are the professionals in the UK retail property development sector who were invited to take an interest and invest their shareholders money in the current proposed Barons Quay development. They all walked away and left CWAC Council with egg on its face. As a result the the Council is now scratching to find £60million of funding to finance a dodgy property gamble and laying the risk ultimately on council tax payers. I am not sure that is legal. What next, CWAC Council puts millions of council tax on a horse in the 3.30 at York races next week?

One other point I will make follows on from Trainspotter's contribution above. I happened to be in Northwich town centre early this week and got into conversation with the owners of two shops in the town that will have to compete with ASDA. Following the latest news about Balfour Beatty, both have decided to get out. They won't be the last.

All because the ruling clique in Chester consider Northwich people are not worth anything better better than yet another supermarket
ladach The 'experts' on this matter are the professionals in the UK retail property development sector who were invited to take an interest and invest their shareholders money in the current proposed Barons Quay development. They all walked away and left CWAC Council with egg on its face. As a result the the Council is now scratching to find £60million of funding to finance a dodgy property gamble and laying the risk ultimately on council tax payers. I am not sure that is legal. What next, CWAC Council puts millions of council tax on a horse in the 3.30 at York races next week? One other point I will make follows on from Trainspotter's contribution above. I happened to be in Northwich town centre early this week and got into conversation with the owners of two shops in the town that will have to compete with ASDA. Following the latest news about Balfour Beatty, both have decided to get out. They won't be the last. All because the ruling clique in Chester consider Northwich people are not worth anything better better than yet another supermarket L Byrne
  • Score: -23

8:28pm Sat 26 Jul 14

Daniel18 says...

L Byrne wrote:
ladach

The 'experts' on this matter are the professionals in the UK retail property development sector who were invited to take an interest and invest their shareholders money in the current proposed Barons Quay development. They all walked away and left CWAC Council with egg on its face. As a result the the Council is now scratching to find £60million of funding to finance a dodgy property gamble and laying the risk ultimately on council tax payers. I am not sure that is legal. What next, CWAC Council puts millions of council tax on a horse in the 3.30 at York races next week?

One other point I will make follows on from Trainspotter's contribution above. I happened to be in Northwich town centre early this week and got into conversation with the owners of two shops in the town that will have to compete with ASDA. Following the latest news about Balfour Beatty, both have decided to get out. They won't be the last.

All because the ruling clique in Chester consider Northwich people are not worth anything better better than yet another supermarket
Mr Bryne,

As you are well aware Northwich is getting much more than just 'another supermarket'. We are getting a 5 screen cinema, 8 new riverfront restaurants, 25 new shops and an 80-bed hotel - not forgetting the public square, riverside park, Memorial Court and the new public realm work throughout High Street, Witton street & Leicester Street.

As Ladach has already said, there are many people in Northwich who would happily nip into town to have a meal & a drink on the riverfront when the restaurants open. Indeed there it has already been shown that there is a demand for such units in Northwich - as both the restaurant unit on Hayhurst Quay and the former Amber Lounge have already been let - before the building works have even finished.

Contrary to your beliefs - CWaC have already secured the funding for the scheme through the Public Works Loan Board (which, before you say anything, is entirely legal) - so they don't need to scratch to find anything.

Also, with regards to your statement about the property developers walking away - I think you'll find that it was CWaC who walked away from the contract that VRBC had set up with Wilson Bowden. They then took the decision, that rather than re-tender the contract, to build the development themselves - meaning that any profits made can be reinvested into the area - rather than lining the pockets of the shareholders.

Barons Quay hasn't just been concocted by CWaC, the scheme has been designed by a team of expert architects, based on data gathered by a team of experienced retail consultants – so, forgive me for saying, but I think they know a bit more about retail planning than you.
[quote][p][bold]L Byrne[/bold] wrote: ladach The 'experts' on this matter are the professionals in the UK retail property development sector who were invited to take an interest and invest their shareholders money in the current proposed Barons Quay development. They all walked away and left CWAC Council with egg on its face. As a result the the Council is now scratching to find £60million of funding to finance a dodgy property gamble and laying the risk ultimately on council tax payers. I am not sure that is legal. What next, CWAC Council puts millions of council tax on a horse in the 3.30 at York races next week? One other point I will make follows on from Trainspotter's contribution above. I happened to be in Northwich town centre early this week and got into conversation with the owners of two shops in the town that will have to compete with ASDA. Following the latest news about Balfour Beatty, both have decided to get out. They won't be the last. All because the ruling clique in Chester consider Northwich people are not worth anything better better than yet another supermarket[/p][/quote]Mr Bryne, As you are well aware Northwich is getting much more than just 'another supermarket'. We are getting a 5 screen cinema, 8 new riverfront restaurants, 25 new shops and an 80-bed hotel - not forgetting the public square, riverside park, Memorial Court and the new public realm work throughout High Street, Witton street & Leicester Street. As Ladach has already said, there are many people in Northwich who would happily nip into town to have a meal & a drink on the riverfront when the restaurants open. Indeed there it has already been shown that there is a demand for such units in Northwich - as both the restaurant unit on Hayhurst Quay and the former Amber Lounge have already been let - before the building works have even finished. Contrary to your beliefs - CWaC have already secured the funding for the scheme through the Public Works Loan Board (which, before you say anything, is entirely legal) - so they don't need to scratch to find anything. Also, with regards to your statement about the property developers walking away - I think you'll find that it was CWaC who walked away from the contract that VRBC had set up with Wilson Bowden. They then took the decision, that rather than re-tender the contract, to build the development themselves - meaning that any profits made can be reinvested into the area - rather than lining the pockets of the shareholders. Barons Quay hasn't just been concocted by CWaC, the scheme has been designed by a team of expert architects, based on data gathered by a team of experienced retail consultants – so, forgive me for saying, but I think they know a bit more about retail planning than you. Daniel18
  • Score: 24

10:41am Sun 27 Jul 14

Iadach says...

Daniel 18,

Good points well made.

L Byrne,

Having studied & worked in architecture/surveyi
ng for the last couple of decades or so I can say from experience that most developers are experts in maximising profit above all else so I would actually welcome CWAC as the developer with it not being a commercial concern; they will be more interested in doing the job to the highest standard over cutting out the aesthetic quality in some areas to maximise profit (the savings not being passed on thus being no cheaper for the client) giving a better legacy for tax payers & their offspring as Daniel 18 alluded to. As stated earlier on in this thread, it can be difficult to get the insurance to build on the land because of previous subsidence issues. I've been declined buildings insurance in Northwich because of the old subsidence issues even though I pointed out that central government paid £10's of millions shoring the ground up.
Do you not think that the major chains that have signed up are averse to commercial suicide too? If this is a white elephant in the making why are they interested? It's a simple fact that there is no difficulty in the operating or commercial viability once built. Having survived the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression, they are the real ‘experts’ regarding the commercial viability of the scheme and there seems to be no shortage of interested parties so far.
As for another supermarket (actually a small part of the whole scheme as Daniel 18 pointed out), so what? With another 5,500 houses to be built (that was the figure posted earlier in this thread) I think it's not unreasonable to assume there will be an average of 4 occupants per house which means a population increase of approximately 22,000! I think one more supermarket may not actually be enough!
Regarding these traders that are going, how can they survive OK with a Sainsbury's in the town centre but not an Asda? Surely Sainsbury's have the most to worry about? With all change comes risk but also opportunity; with no change comes stagnation. I don't want to see anybody go out of business, far from it but if a few have to move out so that the rest of the town can move on then that is a sad price that has to be paid.
If you seriously doubt the legality then by all means report it. I suspect you haven’t done so because you know that it is not the case which makes me doubt the legality of your claim on a public forum as it is borderline slander against the council!
Daniel 18, Good points well made. L Byrne, Having studied & worked in architecture/surveyi ng for the last couple of decades or so I can say from experience that most developers are experts in maximising profit above all else so I would actually welcome CWAC as the developer with it not being a commercial concern; they will be more interested in doing the job to the highest standard over cutting out the aesthetic quality in some areas to maximise profit (the savings not being passed on thus being no cheaper for the client) giving a better legacy for tax payers & their offspring as Daniel 18 alluded to. As stated earlier on in this thread, it can be difficult to get the insurance to build on the land because of previous subsidence issues. I've been declined buildings insurance in Northwich because of the old subsidence issues even though I pointed out that central government paid £10's of millions shoring the ground up. Do you not think that the major chains that have signed up are averse to commercial suicide too? If this is a white elephant in the making why are they interested? It's a simple fact that there is no difficulty in the operating or commercial viability once built. Having survived the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression, they are the real ‘experts’ regarding the commercial viability of the scheme and there seems to be no shortage of interested parties so far. As for another supermarket (actually a small part of the whole scheme as Daniel 18 pointed out), so what? With another 5,500 houses to be built (that was the figure posted earlier in this thread) I think it's not unreasonable to assume there will be an average of 4 occupants per house which means a population increase of approximately 22,000! I think one more supermarket may not actually be enough! Regarding these traders that are going, how can they survive OK with a Sainsbury's in the town centre but not an Asda? Surely Sainsbury's have the most to worry about? With all change comes risk but also opportunity; with no change comes stagnation. I don't want to see anybody go out of business, far from it but if a few have to move out so that the rest of the town can move on then that is a sad price that has to be paid. If you seriously doubt the legality then by all means report it. I suspect you haven’t done so because you know that it is not the case which makes me doubt the legality of your claim on a public forum as it is borderline slander against the council! Iadach
  • Score: 20

11:58pm Sun 27 Jul 14

L Byrne says...

Ladach

In your first para you admit that private developers are not willing to risk their money in the proposed scheme because of the threat of subsidence but you are evidently content that the clever people running CWAC Council are willing to risk mine and other taxpayers' cash on a property venture. Amazingly, the Tory group in charge would privatise their grandmothers given the opportunity so why are they so keen for the council to own this one? Funny business, surely.

The 'major chains' as you call them will not be taking any risk regarding subsidence, it will be down to the council and taxpayers to carry the can. By the way, would these 'major chains' be related to the stores that have closed down in recent years in Northwich town centre and Weaver Square that have left so many opportunities for charity shops. Or perhaps they are bigger betting shops and pay day loan joints.

Your comment about Asda versus Sainsbury's is weird. Everybody I have spoken to reckons the town needs another yet supermarket like a hole in the head. What we do need are things like a new library, a little play area where parents could take their children for a break during shopping, a drop in centre for older people where they could meet their friends and get advice, a small park with a flower garden, a safe river-side walk along the Weaver, a band stand, better public toilet facilities, removal of the stench in Witton Street, a permanent art display area, Weaver Square sorted out.

But what does CWAC Council want to foist on us for the next 40 or 50 years? Incredibly and shamefully the answer is a wretched Asda and eight restaurants.

The scandal is even worse because the simple vision I describe could be made to happen for less than a quarter of the £60million the Council intends to spend on its bonkers and risky plan and, because it would attract more people into the town, it would create more sustainable jobs in the long run.

In a way, I am surprised that UKIP or the Lib Dems haven't picked up on this issue ahead of next year's council election. I am sure that there are votes to be had if they were to promise some sort of public consultation on the two basic ways of of developing Barons Quay and the centre of Northwich and removing the threat of the monstrous and expensive carbuncle that CWAC Council are so intent on risking our money on.
Ladach In your first para you admit that private developers are not willing to risk their money in the proposed scheme because of the threat of subsidence but you are evidently content that the clever people running CWAC Council are willing to risk mine and other taxpayers' cash on a property venture. Amazingly, the Tory group in charge would privatise their grandmothers given the opportunity so why are they so keen for the council to own this one? Funny business, surely. The 'major chains' as you call them will not be taking any risk regarding subsidence, it will be down to the council and taxpayers to carry the can. By the way, would these 'major chains' be related to the stores that have closed down in recent years in Northwich town centre and Weaver Square that have left so many opportunities for charity shops. Or perhaps they are bigger betting shops and pay day loan joints. Your comment about Asda versus Sainsbury's is weird. Everybody I have spoken to reckons the town needs another yet supermarket like a hole in the head. What we do need are things like a new library, a little play area where parents could take their children for a break during shopping, a drop in centre for older people where they could meet their friends and get advice, a small park with a flower garden, a safe river-side walk along the Weaver, a band stand, better public toilet facilities, removal of the stench in Witton Street, a permanent art display area, Weaver Square sorted out. But what does CWAC Council want to foist on us for the next 40 or 50 years? Incredibly and shamefully the answer is a wretched Asda and eight restaurants. The scandal is even worse because the simple vision I describe could be made to happen for less than a quarter of the £60million the Council intends to spend on its bonkers and risky plan and, because it would attract more people into the town, it would create more sustainable jobs in the long run. In a way, I am surprised that UKIP or the Lib Dems haven't picked up on this issue ahead of next year's council election. I am sure that there are votes to be had if they were to promise some sort of public consultation on the two basic ways of of developing Barons Quay and the centre of Northwich and removing the threat of the monstrous and expensive carbuncle that CWAC Council are so intent on risking our money on. L Byrne
  • Score: -23

3:40pm Mon 28 Jul 14

Iadach says...

L Byrne,

No, you’re grasping at straws reading that meaning into my first sentence trying to prop up your argument in the face of overwhelming evidence. To the best of my knowledge, insurance companies are not planning to build anything! In fact the first thing I said was that Daniel 18 made some good points. I think particularly the one where he pointed out a commercial developer had already been appointed but the demise of VRBC led CWAC to decide to do it themselves, or did you not read his reply? Or the points I made about it actually being of benefit that CWAC are the developer. As pointed out earlier in the thread, they are doing it in Chester too; you know - poor impoverished Chester that nobody would touch with a bargepole… Besides which, if any developer is perturbed by the former subsidence issues to the point where they are not interested then that would be applicable to ANY scheme proposed for the site and would require CWAC to step in regardless. Either that or watch Northwich just wither to the point of no return. So by using your logic there is no alternative to CWAC being the developer of the site regardless of the proposed development, even if it was the twee pastiche you so prefer rather than a bold, forward looking reinvention in the kind of spirit that that gave us the swing bridges & the boat lift. However that is not the case; a conscious decision seems to have been made by the council that the arrangement that was in place with a commercial developer was discontinued. As for your ridiculous assertion that any occupier would happily risk occupying a shop prone to subsidence & bear no risk – in the highly unlikely event that the thousands of tonnes of basically concrete that were poured into mine shafts should somehow suddenly crumble (despite the fact it is probably stronger than the ground around it) they would lose a fortune, they just wouldn't take the risk. Besides which, your argument was nothing to with subsidence, it was to do with the scheme being a white elephant and destined for failure because no commercial developers were interested which is wrong and that it involved a number of new restaurants when two have closed. As per my previous post I think we can see now that it is in fact not ‘ludicrous’ or ‘crazy’ or what other tag you want to pin on it for the restaurants to be included in the wider scheme in the setting they are proposed.

Regarding Weaver Square which is privately owned & in administration to the best of my knowledge and thus nothing to do with CWAC, I’m not sure which ‘major chains’ you refer to that moved out of Weaver Square; I can only think of Argos who already had another store at Northwich retail Park. The rest, to the best of my knowledge weren't chains and unfortunately seem not to have survived the economic downturn; hopefully I'm wrong on that & they decided to move for whatever reason. Argos probably closed the one in Weaver Square because the units are too small for their needs. A friend of mine has a business along Market Street & has confirmed that, to paraphrase him 'none of the big boys are interested because the units aren't big enough.' Even Quality Save moved to occupy the former Woolworths because the Weaver Square unit was too small. The simple fact is many people can't really be bothered going into Northwich because there is little choice because there is little accommodation for the shops that most people are interested in. Create the interest, get the footfall, it’s not rocket science. Hopefully then Weaver Square will become viable for interesting independent retailers because people will actually be interested in coming into Northwich. I've pointed all this out to you before in a previous thread.

Regarding supermarkets, did you mention a potential population increase of 22,000 to the people you've spoken to about another supermarket or did you give your slant on how there’s going to be a giant Asda hogging the river front as you've incorrectly claimed before? Were they retail consultants who have undertaken extensive market research? Because that's how it was deemed there was demand for another supermarket and when all these new houses are built it will become apparent why it was deemed there will be sufficient demand.
I can't disagree with your point about provision for the elderly & the young but that is hardly a regeneration master plan and can very easily, in fact I would say should be accommodated into the town centre now or when Barons Quay is complete. The proposed scheme does include a riverside walk – Weaver Way is to be turned into a pedestrian route and there is to be a new public open space by the river next to the cinema and a riverside park between the United Utilities pumping station and Carey Park. I have pointed all this out before but you seem to have paid scant attention as it inconveniently contradicts your diatribe against the development. I have also urged you to look at the plans which you seem not to have done either so how you can deem the whole development to be 'wretched' without seeming to know what it entails absolutely perplexes me.

As for the politics, that's not the issue in hand here and is a distraction from the topic of discussion.
L Byrne, No, you’re grasping at straws reading that meaning into my first sentence trying to prop up your argument in the face of overwhelming evidence. To the best of my knowledge, insurance companies are not planning to build anything! In fact the first thing I said was that Daniel 18 made some good points. I think particularly the one where he pointed out a commercial developer had already been appointed but the demise of VRBC led CWAC to decide to do it themselves, or did you not read his reply? Or the points I made about it actually being of benefit that CWAC are the developer. As pointed out earlier in the thread, they are doing it in Chester too; you know - poor impoverished Chester that nobody would touch with a bargepole… Besides which, if any developer is perturbed by the former subsidence issues to the point where they are not interested then that would be applicable to ANY scheme proposed for the site and would require CWAC to step in regardless. Either that or watch Northwich just wither to the point of no return. So by using your logic there is no alternative to CWAC being the developer of the site regardless of the proposed development, even if it was the twee pastiche you so prefer rather than a bold, forward looking reinvention in the kind of spirit that that gave us the swing bridges & the boat lift. However that is not the case; a conscious decision seems to have been made by the council that the arrangement that was in place with a commercial developer was discontinued. As for your ridiculous assertion that any occupier would happily risk occupying a shop prone to subsidence & bear no risk – in the highly unlikely event that the thousands of tonnes of basically concrete that were poured into mine shafts should somehow suddenly crumble (despite the fact it is probably stronger than the ground around it) they would lose a fortune, they just wouldn't take the risk. Besides which, your argument was nothing to with subsidence, it was to do with the scheme being a white elephant and destined for failure because no commercial developers were interested which is wrong and that it involved a number of new restaurants when two have closed. As per my previous post I think we can see now that it is in fact not ‘ludicrous’ or ‘crazy’ or what other tag you want to pin on it for the restaurants to be included in the wider scheme in the setting they are proposed. Regarding Weaver Square which is privately owned & in administration to the best of my knowledge and thus nothing to do with CWAC, I’m not sure which ‘major chains’ you refer to that moved out of Weaver Square; I can only think of Argos who already had another store at Northwich retail Park. The rest, to the best of my knowledge weren't chains and unfortunately seem not to have survived the economic downturn; hopefully I'm wrong on that & they decided to move for whatever reason. Argos probably closed the one in Weaver Square because the units are too small for their needs. A friend of mine has a business along Market Street & has confirmed that, to paraphrase him 'none of the big boys are interested because the units aren't big enough.' Even Quality Save moved to occupy the former Woolworths because the Weaver Square unit was too small. The simple fact is many people can't really be bothered going into Northwich because there is little choice because there is little accommodation for the shops that most people are interested in. Create the interest, get the footfall, it’s not rocket science. Hopefully then Weaver Square will become viable for interesting independent retailers because people will actually be interested in coming into Northwich. I've pointed all this out to you before in a previous thread. Regarding supermarkets, did you mention a potential population increase of 22,000 to the people you've spoken to about another supermarket or did you give your slant on how there’s going to be a giant Asda hogging the river front as you've incorrectly claimed before? Were they retail consultants who have undertaken extensive market research? Because that's how it was deemed there was demand for another supermarket and when all these new houses are built it will become apparent why it was deemed there will be sufficient demand. I can't disagree with your point about provision for the elderly & the young but that is hardly a regeneration master plan and can very easily, in fact I would say should be accommodated into the town centre now or when Barons Quay is complete. The proposed scheme does include a riverside walk – Weaver Way is to be turned into a pedestrian route and there is to be a new public open space by the river next to the cinema and a riverside park between the United Utilities pumping station and Carey Park. I have pointed all this out before but you seem to have paid scant attention as it inconveniently contradicts your diatribe against the development. I have also urged you to look at the plans which you seem not to have done either so how you can deem the whole development to be 'wretched' without seeming to know what it entails absolutely perplexes me. As for the politics, that's not the issue in hand here and is a distraction from the topic of discussion. Iadach
  • Score: 20

12:22am Tue 29 Jul 14

L Byrne says...

ladach

You are attempting to repeat yourself but change your story every time. Alternatively, you keep silent about the particularly madcap aspects of the development plan like the eight new restaurants which would be in addition to the two currently empty in the town centre or the daft claims about the thousand plus of cinema goers who are apparently going to flood into Northwich every day of the week . 'Denial' some would call it.

What cannot be denied is that the enormous speculative flutter , using taxpayers money, on retail property development by CWAC Council is ill advised particularly as no serious consideration has gone in to meeting the needs of residents in alternative, less risky and more cost effective ways.

As a final comment in this thread, I do not intend to respond to your personal insults which are particularly pathetic because they come from from a person who hides behind anonymity.
ladach You are attempting to repeat yourself but change your story every time. Alternatively, you keep silent about the particularly madcap aspects of the development plan like the eight new restaurants which would be in addition to the two currently empty in the town centre or the daft claims about the thousand plus of cinema goers who are apparently going to flood into Northwich every day of the week . 'Denial' some would call it. What cannot be denied is that the enormous speculative flutter , using taxpayers money, on retail property development by CWAC Council is ill advised particularly as no serious consideration has gone in to meeting the needs of residents in alternative, less risky and more cost effective ways. As a final comment in this thread, I do not intend to respond to your personal insults which are particularly pathetic because they come from from a person who hides behind anonymity. L Byrne
  • Score: -18

12:58pm Tue 29 Jul 14

Iadach says...

L Byrne,

I'm sorry you seem to have taken offence although I'm not sure where these personal insults lie in my previous posts, I would appreciate it if you could clarify them. As you said earlier in this thread, maybe a nerve has been touched. Granted there was a sarcastic tone to it, the precedent of which was very much set by yourself. People in glass houses as an old saying goes. I would also very much appreciate if you could list point by point where my 'story has changed'. I've repeated myself as I have not allowed myself to be led off topic and you have failed to address any of the points I or other contributors have made that are not concurrent with your views. In fact I believe we've all been labelled 'fantasists' which I'm sure some could take as a personal insult. Questioning the legality and integrity of the council could very well insult a lot of hard working people there who are trying to move this scheme forward and improve Northwich greatly.

As for me keeping silent about certain 'madcap' aspects, I can only assume you didn't bother reading my earlier posts properly as I quite clearly explained how a cluster of restaurants (in fact the proposal is a mix of bars and restaurants widening the appeal further) could quite easily work as a part of the whole scheme in the setting they are proposed. Is it 'madcap' that The Penny Black, The Anderton, The Witton Chimes, The Roebuck & The Green Dragon are all pretty much clustered together? Along with several takeaways in a row? Or could be that people are attracted to a cluster of activity to socialise, eat & drink in? A 'scene' if you will; one that is woefully under-represented in Northwich currently. As for the figures regarding the cinema, who can say with any certainty how accurate they are? They probably are overly optimistic marketing spiel but that does not in any way mean that the cinema will be a failure. Again I'll repeat myself that extensive market research has been done to establish the demand and I for one have heard nobody say they don't want a cinema. I clearly remember queues going round the corner when the Regal was open so it would appear that the people of Northwich are interested in cinema. That is an assumption but the market research to establish the demand is not. Neither are the comments on here by people who are looking forward to the return of cinema to Northwich.

I'm afraid I don't agree that this is a speculative flutter at all; forgive me for saying so but I think that is you presenting conjecture and opinion as sensationalised fact because you don't agree with this scheme and are desperate to demean it in any way, regardless of what ever facts anybody else presents. Councils regularly undertook massive building projects in the past, it's nothing new. I won't repeat my professional opinion on why I think it is beneficial for the taxpayers and residents of Northwich, its plain to see in one of my earlier posts which you have either ignored or couldn't argue against. It is a simple fact that the commercial centre of Northwich needs a massive remodelling to boost its ever flagging activity.

Finally, if you have such a problem with people using an online identity then why do you so avidly use this forum where everybody else who posts does use one? I rarely comment on here other than about things I actually know something about or have a worthwhile contribution rather than constantly posting sarcastic, negative conspiracy theories and will not be goaded into revealing personal details on a public forum.
L Byrne, I'm sorry you seem to have taken offence although I'm not sure where these personal insults lie in my previous posts, I would appreciate it if you could clarify them. As you said earlier in this thread, maybe a nerve has been touched. Granted there was a sarcastic tone to it, the precedent of which was very much set by yourself. People in glass houses as an old saying goes. I would also very much appreciate if you could list point by point where my 'story has changed'. I've repeated myself as I have not allowed myself to be led off topic and you have failed to address any of the points I or other contributors have made that are not concurrent with your views. In fact I believe we've all been labelled 'fantasists' which I'm sure some could take as a personal insult. Questioning the legality and integrity of the council could very well insult a lot of hard working people there who are trying to move this scheme forward and improve Northwich greatly. As for me keeping silent about certain 'madcap' aspects, I can only assume you didn't bother reading my earlier posts properly as I quite clearly explained how a cluster of restaurants (in fact the proposal is a mix of bars and restaurants widening the appeal further) could quite easily work as a part of the whole scheme in the setting they are proposed. Is it 'madcap' that The Penny Black, The Anderton, The Witton Chimes, The Roebuck & The Green Dragon are all pretty much clustered together? Along with several takeaways in a row? Or could be that people are attracted to a cluster of activity to socialise, eat & drink in? A 'scene' if you will; one that is woefully under-represented in Northwich currently. As for the figures regarding the cinema, who can say with any certainty how accurate they are? They probably are overly optimistic marketing spiel but that does not in any way mean that the cinema will be a failure. Again I'll repeat myself that extensive market research has been done to establish the demand and I for one have heard nobody say they don't want a cinema. I clearly remember queues going round the corner when the Regal was open so it would appear that the people of Northwich are interested in cinema. That is an assumption but the market research to establish the demand is not. Neither are the comments on here by people who are looking forward to the return of cinema to Northwich. I'm afraid I don't agree that this is a speculative flutter at all; forgive me for saying so but I think that is you presenting conjecture and opinion as sensationalised fact because you don't agree with this scheme and are desperate to demean it in any way, regardless of what ever facts anybody else presents. Councils regularly undertook massive building projects in the past, it's nothing new. I won't repeat my professional opinion on why I think it is beneficial for the taxpayers and residents of Northwich, its plain to see in one of my earlier posts which you have either ignored or couldn't argue against. It is a simple fact that the commercial centre of Northwich needs a massive remodelling to boost its ever flagging activity. Finally, if you have such a problem with people using an online identity then why do you so avidly use this forum where everybody else who posts does use one? I rarely comment on here other than about things I actually know something about or have a worthwhile contribution rather than constantly posting sarcastic, negative conspiracy theories and will not be goaded into revealing personal details on a public forum. Iadach
  • Score: 15

5:47pm Tue 29 Jul 14

Daniel18 says...

L Byrne wrote:
ladach

You are attempting to repeat yourself but change your story every time. Alternatively, you keep silent about the particularly madcap aspects of the development plan like the eight new restaurants which would be in addition to the two currently empty in the town centre or the daft claims about the thousand plus of cinema goers who are apparently going to flood into Northwich every day of the week . 'Denial' some would call it.

What cannot be denied is that the enormous speculative flutter , using taxpayers money, on retail property development by CWAC Council is ill advised particularly as no serious consideration has gone in to meeting the needs of residents in alternative, less risky and more cost effective ways.

As a final comment in this thread, I do not intend to respond to your personal insults which are particularly pathetic because they come from from a person who hides behind anonymity.
I think it is you that is in ‘denial’ rather than Ladach. You base all of your statements on a personal vendetta against CWaC rather than simple facts.

> You state that the cinema & restaurants are a giant white elephant, but seem to ignore the fact that the cinema has already been pre-let to an international cinema chain – Who obviously know that there is a demand for a cinema in the town.

> You tell us that the property developers walked away from the scheme – just missing out the fact that it was CWaC who walked away from the contract that VRBC had set up with Wilson Bowden.

> You continuously go on about the two restaurants that have closed – but ignore the fact that there are 7 bars and restaurants within Northwich town centre that are open, along with a number of coffee shops and cafes.

> According to yourself ASDA will kill the whole town, but miss out the fact that the town has survived for the past 20 year with a Sainsbury supermarket in the town centre.

> You claim that CWaC are having to ‘scratch’ around to find the money – Ignoring the fact that the funding has already been secured.

> You repeatedly claim that CWaC would never let this happen in Chester – missing out the fact that they are already planning a similar scheme in the city’s Northern Quarter.

> You tell us how the 'major chains' will not be taking any risk regarding subsidence – ignoring the fact that two ‘Major Chains’ (Asda and Odeon) have already signed up to the scheme.

> You constantly moan that all of our council tax is being spent in Chester, but miss out the fact that they are currently investing nearly £100 million in our town.

At the end of the day everybody is entitled to an opinion, but instead of basing it on a personal vendetta, Ladach has simply based his on the facts.
[quote][p][bold]L Byrne[/bold] wrote: ladach You are attempting to repeat yourself but change your story every time. Alternatively, you keep silent about the particularly madcap aspects of the development plan like the eight new restaurants which would be in addition to the two currently empty in the town centre or the daft claims about the thousand plus of cinema goers who are apparently going to flood into Northwich every day of the week . 'Denial' some would call it. What cannot be denied is that the enormous speculative flutter , using taxpayers money, on retail property development by CWAC Council is ill advised particularly as no serious consideration has gone in to meeting the needs of residents in alternative, less risky and more cost effective ways. As a final comment in this thread, I do not intend to respond to your personal insults which are particularly pathetic because they come from from a person who hides behind anonymity.[/p][/quote]I think it is you that is in ‘denial’ rather than Ladach. You base all of your statements on a personal vendetta against CWaC rather than simple facts. > You state that the cinema & restaurants are a giant white elephant, but seem to ignore the fact that the cinema has already been pre-let to an international cinema chain – Who obviously know that there is a demand for a cinema in the town. > You tell us that the property developers walked away from the scheme – just missing out the fact that it was CWaC who walked away from the contract that VRBC had set up with Wilson Bowden. > You continuously go on about the two restaurants that have closed – but ignore the fact that there are 7 bars and restaurants within Northwich town centre that are open, along with a number of coffee shops and cafes. > According to yourself ASDA will kill the whole town, but miss out the fact that the town has survived for the past 20 year with a Sainsbury supermarket in the town centre. > You claim that CWaC are having to ‘scratch’ around to find the money – Ignoring the fact that the funding has already been secured. > You repeatedly claim that CWaC would never let this happen in Chester – missing out the fact that they are already planning a similar scheme in the city’s Northern Quarter. > You tell us how the 'major chains' will not be taking any risk regarding subsidence – ignoring the fact that two ‘Major Chains’ (Asda and Odeon) have already signed up to the scheme. > You constantly moan that all of our council tax is being spent in Chester, but miss out the fact that they are currently investing nearly £100 million in our town. At the end of the day everybody is entitled to an opinion, but instead of basing it on a personal vendetta, Ladach has simply based his on the facts. Daniel18
  • Score: 14

11:33pm Tue 29 Jul 14

L Byrne says...

Daniel18 / ladach

You comments above are riven with inaccuracies and assertions that are just plain daft. 'A personal vendetta against CWaC'; do me a favour.

As you both hide behind anonymity and hence do not reveal the vested interests that you evidently have in the development, I believe that there is no point in responding.

My guess is that one or both of you work for the council in some way. But you will deny it, of course.

Never mind, roll on 2016 when Barons Quay, if it gets built, will be a shoo-in for the UK Bad Architecture Carbuncle Cup and Northwich will be famous.
Daniel18 / ladach You comments above are riven with inaccuracies and assertions that are just plain daft. 'A personal vendetta against CWaC'; do me a favour. As you both hide behind anonymity and hence do not reveal the vested interests that you evidently have in the development, I believe that there is no point in responding. My guess is that one or both of you work for the council in some way. But you will deny it, of course. Never mind, roll on 2016 when Barons Quay, if it gets built, will be a shoo-in for the UK Bad Architecture Carbuncle Cup and Northwich will be famous. L Byrne
  • Score: -20

1:47pm Wed 30 Jul 14

Iadach says...

There we go again; no clarification of where these insults lie, no breakdown of where 'my story has changed', no addressing of the bullet points that Daniel 18 has presented to make it even easier for you to present your argument. Just thrashing around like an irritable toddler in its cot and more paranoid conspiracy theories to try to distract from the total lack of substance to your ranting which to use your own terminology is pathetic. Oddly enough not everyone who doesn't agree with you is a CWaC spy. But then you've very shrewdly already stated I'd deny having anything to do with it, probably not actually believing for a second that I'm anything do with CWaC, in an attempt to give yourself some credence when I do categorically state that I have nothing to do with the council or this scheme; the only vested interest I have is that I will live in a much better town & my kids will have a much more exciting & interesting place to grow up in.
Please do elaborate why the proposal is architecturally poor other than the fact you don’t like it. A primary school child can make a simple statement of opinion; qualify your claims. Your innate inability to counter any of the points made in favour of the scheme with anything other than conjecture, opinion, sarcasm and conspiracy leaves your argument totally devoid of credence and you severely lacking in credibility. Tenacity is where you won’t let something go that’s worth pursuing; belligerent arrogance is where you flatly refuse to listen to reason, disregard everyone else’s opinion and stamp your feet insisting you’re right until everybody else gives in.
There we go again; no clarification of where these insults lie, no breakdown of where 'my story has changed', no addressing of the bullet points that Daniel 18 has presented to make it even easier for you to present your argument. Just thrashing around like an irritable toddler in its cot and more paranoid conspiracy theories to try to distract from the total lack of substance to your ranting which to use your own terminology is pathetic. Oddly enough not everyone who doesn't agree with you is a CWaC spy. But then you've very shrewdly already stated I'd deny having anything to do with it, probably not actually believing for a second that I'm anything do with CWaC, in an attempt to give yourself some credence when I do categorically state that I have nothing to do with the council or this scheme; the only vested interest I have is that I will live in a much better town & my kids will have a much more exciting & interesting place to grow up in. Please do elaborate why the proposal is architecturally poor other than the fact you don’t like it. A primary school child can make a simple statement of opinion; qualify your claims. Your innate inability to counter any of the points made in favour of the scheme with anything other than conjecture, opinion, sarcasm and conspiracy leaves your argument totally devoid of credence and you severely lacking in credibility. Tenacity is where you won’t let something go that’s worth pursuing; belligerent arrogance is where you flatly refuse to listen to reason, disregard everyone else’s opinion and stamp your feet insisting you’re right until everybody else gives in. Iadach
  • Score: 14

4:23pm Fri 1 Aug 14

Bazzer49 says...

Thought we would get moving soon on Barons Quay , they've just redone the white lines on the car park bays!
Thought we would get moving soon on Barons Quay , they've just redone the white lines on the car park bays! Bazzer49
  • Score: 0

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