Trust asks for rules change support (From Northwich Guardian)

Proposals regarding the formation of a new organisation, A Supporters Trust, were first made when Vics were in a Ground Share Agreement with Witton Albion FC

The formation of Supporters Trusts is a relatively recent development with the principal objectives of Trusts owning shares in a club, gaining representation on the football club board of Director and eventually taking over running of a football club.
Supporters trusts come under the umbrella of supporters direct (A Quango) which was formed as a new labour government funded initiative with a national and regional structure with officials who offer advice, guidance and training to officials involved in runnging a club.

northwich victoria supporters trust was registered in 2004 and is an industrial and provident society with associated officialdom and supposed regulations of the Financial Services Authority. A substantial number of supporters who had belonged to the drill field trust were founder members of The Northwich Victoria Supporters Trust.
Members agreed at the time on the understanding (sadly mistaken as events have prove) that the trust would concentrate its efforts on supporting Vics agreed that the funds remaining in the drill field trust be transferred to the newly formed organisation
Perhaps as the now so called northwich Victoria Supporters Trust has embarked on a completly different policy from that envisaged when it was formed as a matter of integrity and to avoid the recent confusion and other conflicting possibilities, it should

A/ To avoid confusion and to make clear what its policy is and what it actually supports, change its name as a matter of urgency so that it clearly represents the Trusts latest developments.

B/ Return to Northwich Victoria Football club the funds that were given from the Drill field trust. This Money was donated by Vics supporters (many of whom have sadly passed away) for the support of Vics not for the formation of a new football club.

C/ Return all other monies that have been accrued prior to 15th November 2012 to a worthwhile local Registered Charity, as that money was not designated to be used for the benefit of another Football Club, A number of current and ex Trust members have paid money into the trust over the past 8 Years on the understanding that the money should be used for the benefit of Northwich Victoria Football Club.

For the sake of accuracy could I correct a few points in the post of Nvfc fan
1. The setting up of the supporters trust at Northwich Vics was commenced whilst Vics were still playing at the Drill Field as there was a lot of preparation work prior to the ‘official launch’. Early preparatory meetings were held at the DF and events over the ground sale were in no way connected.
2. “and eventually taking over the running of a football club”. This is not a ‘principal objective’ of Trusts, just one of many options that trusts can work towards.
3. Supporters Direct is not a ‘quango’ but a Community Benefit Society owned by the trusts and clubs. It is not restricted to football and is also active in 20 European countries.
4. The Drill Field Trust had no connection to the Supporters Trust apart from people belonging to both. NVST members had no say in what happened to the last few hundred pounds left in the DFT after members were repaid about £27,000 out of the proceeds of the sale of the Drill Field.
5. “so called”. There is no ambiguity here - until the name change is legally completed it will retain the name registered at Companies House – Northwich Victoria Supporters Association Limited
6. There is no confusion as to the Trust policy – readers can access the trust website and see the clear aims and objectives of the Trust.
7. “return to Northwich Victoria Football Club the funds that were given from the Drill Field Trust”. This is impossible on 2 counts. Firstly, the money was never in the football club, the DFT was totally separate from the club so it cannot be returned to an entity that never had it in the first place! Secondly, it is worth remembering that even if that were not so the football club that existed then is long since bankrupt and has ceased to exist.
8. As for distributing any money in the Trust for any reason – this is totally dependent on a democratic process involving all members. Some people have a misguided idea that the Trust Board, or chairman make the decisions about what happens to the funds. The Board enacts the members’ wishes. As others have found in the past democracy can be quite inconvenient when people do not vote as you think they should!

Finally, on one point I am in total agreement with the previous correspondent that the name change needs to be completed as soon as possible. The potential damage to the reputation of the Trust and its integrity by being associated with the regime that took the club to Stafford (and will soon move it to Manchester) should not be underestimated. The long and difficult task of rebuilding a trusting relationship with local businesses and potential sponsors to help realise the potential of the new fans owned ‘1874 Northwich FC’ can only be made even more difficult by even a hint of a connection with the Stafford/Flixton regime.

My word Colin, your grasp of the English language has improved in the last few hours. Hmmn?

But to answer Steve's rehashed and increasingly desperate statement, there is nothing - repeat nothing that the trust has done that is illegal, immoral or wrong, in fact every step of our journey to become a new club has been approved by our members.

Read the rules of the trust.

As you keep harping on Colin, you get on with your club and as Jim has said, we can get on with ours.

What are you so afraid of? If Jim is serious about Vics returning to Northwich surely he can't be worried about a bunch of amateurs setting up their own "little" club?

What isn't mentioned above is the fact that the Trust has provided donations / sponsorship to the value of over £35,000 to NVFC and the community since 2004.

The decisions regarding the money being made BY THE MEMBERS at the time.

The £3,500 transferred to the Trust from the DFT was used to support the Club in the first two years, when about £12,000 went directly in support of the Club. Then came the Connet years, when he did not recognise the Trust and on the arrival of Mr Rushe, sponsorship, donations and advertising / hospitality boxes restarted.

A response from Toddy Barlow:

Money raised by The Drill Field Trust was never intended for the club but soley to save The Drill field,so the statement to say otherwise is not true,so whoever you are please get your fact's right

Toddy Barlow,
The First Chairman and founder member of The Drill Field Trust.

You are sadly mistaken with the status of Northwich Victoria Football Club.

The Entity of Northwich Victoria Football Club has been in existence since 1874 and still is.

I take it you are referring to the status of the previous organisations of whom owned the entity of Northwich Victoria Football Club, i.e. Northwich Victoria Football Club 2004 ltd and previous to that Northwich Victoria Football Club Ltd, another one was would up in 1890.

I believe Northwich Victoria 2007 ltd, owns now the current entity of Northwich Victoria Football and is still in existence and currently playing in Stafford due to the fact of being homeless. Playing very well I must add baring a disappointing result on Saturday.

And just for clarification 1874 Northwich Football Club does not own the entity of Northwich Victoria Football Club and never will do since its change in policy of not supporting Northwich Victoria Football Club anymore, despite it claiming to be the “Real Vics” and using the “year” of formation of Northwich Victoria football in its name and proclaiming its history.

The “confusion” in which I was referring to is the forthcoming Northwich Area Meeting on Thursday for example in which on the agenda it quoted the Northwich Victoria Football Club Supporters Group. Northwich Victoria Football Club and its supporters knew nothing about this meeting. I believe a presentation is now being done by both parties. Hence the urgent need change your name.

It’s such a pity that at the meeting the Council do not knock both parties heads together and make us become one football club again (Northwich Victoria Football Club) and work together to get the Football Club, Northwich Victoria Football club back in to Northwich again.

Colin Buckley
Ex loyal member of Northwich Victoria Supports Trust
& Northwich Victoria Football Club Supporter.

Here is a long and, frankly, disgusting list of reasons why 1874 Northwich would never wish to be seen to be connected to the pervious football club.
17/9/ 2008
Transfer embargo
28/10/2008
Vics play Telford in FA cup
11/12/2008
Vics fail to pay Telford cash from FA cup game. Payment should be made in full within 14 days of the match.
“Jim Rushe has not responded to my calls once,” said Bucks chairman Lee Carter
15/12/2008
FA ask Vics to explain non payment
Rushe - “They will be fully reimbursed in the next few days.” (by 20/12)
Late 2008
Players not being paid.
7/1/2009
League bosses summon Jim Rushe to a meeting to discuss the club’s ongoing financial problems.
VICS still have not handed over cash they owe to Telford.
10/1/2009
Another transfer embargo
16/1/2009
JIM Rushe is close to buying back Northwich Victoria’s home ground.
“We are 85 per cent of the way to having that funding secured,”
16/1/2009
FANS help to pay off part of Vics’ debt to AFC Telford United - a £1,000 instalment – around a fifth of the total owed
Bucks’ chairman Lee Carter claims he has still not spoken to Rushe almost three months after the game.
“I am frustrated because he just has not communicated with us at all,”
“The longer he goes without talking to me the more we are likely to pursue the matter on a more formal and legal basis.”
18/2/2009
If FA Cup debts not cleared in 48 hrs Vics will be barred from FA Cup next season.
19/2/2009
Telford finally receive payment of all outstanding money in relation to the FA Cup tie. Supporters Trust delivered a four-figure cheque on Thursday to clear the debt. Money a combination of fans efforts topped up by Trust. Chairman Lee Carter said: “I absolutely apologise for having to bring what should have been a private matter out into the open. “However, I still feel that we had no choice. The silence from Jim Rushe (Northwich’s chairman) is still deafening.”
19/2/2009
Debt to York City also cleared by Trust and fans.
26/3/2009
Property experts GVA Grimley, advising on the sale on behalf of receivers Deloitte Touche, today revealed they are hopeful Rushe will have the keys for keeps in the near future.
”We continue to advise on the sale,” said a spokesman.
” It is currently in solicitors’ hands and due to exchange contracts very shortly.”
29/4/2009
Owner Jim Rushe issues a statement confirming he has swapped contracts with Deloitte Touche on a deal to buy the ground. He could be landlord within weeks.
18/5/2009
Vics run out of money to pay their bills this week, entering administration for the second time in less than five years.
5/6/2009
Kicked out of the Football Conference for breaking finance rules.
10/6/2009
Vics win appeal to stay in Conference North but start with 10 pt penalty
30/9/2009
Jim Rushe says his consortium, including two other local businessmen, were “about 95% there with the funding”.
25/10/2009
Another transfer embargo
27/1/2010
THE Football Conference says it will deduct ten points off Northwich Victoria’s tally if the club does not pay its debts to other teams.
League bosses said they felt they had been deceived by Vics, fining them £2,500 as punishment.
That will rise to £10,000 – in addition to a points penalty – if the bills are not settled by the end of February.
“We accept their verdict,” said Jim Rushe.
March 2010
Another transfer embargo
13/5/2010
Conference writes to Vics to inform the club that it had failed to prove it had complied with Appendix E in the league’s rules book. That has led to them being kicked out of the competition for the second successive summer, pending the outcome of any appeal.
10/6/10
Jim Rushe confirms (re purchase) that details had now been agreed with the Bank who currently hold the Stadium
7/7/2010
Vics are still waiting to bank prize money earned by the team on their run to the FA Cup’s second round last season. Cash reward worth around £180,000.
But the game’s governing body would not pay up until the company that pays the players’ wages – Northwich Victoria Football Club (2004) Ltd – came out of administration. That happened almost eight weeks ago.
“The FA wants clarification on one or two more things before releasing the money,” said Jim Rushe.
“They aren’t major issues; one is to do with crowd figures and another related to transfer fees we’ve received for our players over the past few months.
“I’m confident they can be resolved quickly.”
9/9/10
Jim confirmed that he had been invited to a meeting with the F.A. in London on 16th September. He would be attending with Howard Roberts and Paul O’Brien with the objective of freeing up the money due from last seasons cup run.
15/8/2011
Vics home match against Kendal Town postponed.
“The game is off due to ongoing issues between Vics and the league,” say Kendal.
17/1/2012
FINANCE experts hired to sell Northwich Victoria’s home say the club’s owner ran out of time to buy the land.
A spokesman for Deloitte Touche has confirmed to the Guardianthat they intend to evict the Evo-Stik NPL Premier Division club before the weekend.
31/1/2012
THOR wishes to announce that it has now completed the purchase of the Victoria Stadium at Wincham.
However we are disappointed to advise that negotiations with Northwich Victoria Football Club (2007) Limited, which would have allowed the team to use the stadium for the rest of the season, have broken down.
Vics are now ‘homeless’
4/4/2012
Businesses promised more than two years ago part payment of a debt owed to them by Northwich Victoria Football Club have not had a penny.
Those firms agreed in December 2009 – seven months after the club had entered administration – to write off close to two thirds of every unpaid bill in return for receiving the remainder in monthly instalments over the next five years.
They are still waiting for their money.
14/4/2012
Vics expelled from NPL
He was told that the firm that pays the players’ wages – Northwich Victoria Football Club (2007) Ltd – had failed to do what was expected when it became a member of the competition.
That includes paying debts owed by the club’s previous incarnation – Northwich Victoria Football Club (2004) Ltd – via a Company Voluntary Arrangement (CVA) agreed in December 2009.
The club was also found guilty of not telling league bosses it had not complied with the terms of its CVA, which was torn up by a judge at a Manchester court in February.
25/5/2012
FA decide Vics to be relegated only 1 league to the NPL Southern Division.
Vics appeal.
28/6/2012
Vics lose appeal
3/8/2012
Vics appeal to Court of Arbitration for Sport over decision they must play at Stafford in season 2012-3 as agreed with the League.
21/8/2012
CAS confirm they do not have jurisdiction to hear appeal.
5/9/12
Vics serve notice of arbitration on NPL re the issues around Flixton
15/11/12
Jim Rushe declared bankrupt. He now does not meet the criteria for being ‘a fit and proper person’ to own a football club
17/12/12
Arbitration appeal dismissed
18/12/12
Northwich Victoria 2004 Ltd liquidated
20/12/12
Bankruptcy order rescinded


For 1874 Northwich to be seen to be connected to that would be the kiss of death.

Re: Colin Buckley's last post - although I doubt it was Colin who wrote it - Maybe if Northwich Victoria Football Club (2007) Ltd actually filed some accounts with Companies House (they are at least 6 months overdue) then it might go some way towards showing that NVFC is still in existence. According to Companies House, NVFC (2007) Ltd is a dormant company. As for the council "making us become one football club again", not a chance while Jim Rushe has control of NVFC.

Nvfc fan wrote:
You are sadly mistaken with the status of Northwich Victoria Football Club.

The Entity of Northwich Victoria Football Club has been in existence since 1874 and still is.

I take it you are referring to the status of the previous organisations of whom owned the entity of Northwich Victoria Football Club, i.e. Northwich Victoria Football Club 2004 ltd and previous to that Northwich Victoria Football Club Ltd, another one was would up in 1890.

I believe Northwich Victoria 2007 ltd, owns now the current entity of Northwich Victoria Football and is still in existence and currently playing in Stafford due to the fact of being homeless. Playing very well I must add baring a disappointing result on Saturday.

And just for clarification 1874 Northwich Football Club does not own the entity of Northwich Victoria Football Club and never will do since its change in policy of not supporting Northwich Victoria Football Club anymore, despite it claiming to be the “Real Vics” and using the “year” of formation of Northwich Victoria football in its name and proclaiming its history.

The “confusion” in which I was referring to is the forthcoming Northwich Area Meeting on Thursday for example in which on the agenda it quoted the Northwich Victoria Football Club Supporters Group. Northwich Victoria Football Club and its supporters knew nothing about this meeting. I believe a presentation is now being done by both parties. Hence the urgent need change your name.

It’s such a pity that at the meeting the Council do not knock both parties heads together and make us become one football club again (Northwich Victoria Football Club) and work together to get the Football Club, Northwich Victoria Football club back in to Northwich again.

Colin Buckley
Ex loyal member of Northwich Victoria Supports Trust
& Northwich Victoria Football Club Supporter.

I refer to your quote that Rushe's 'personal business' is 'playing very well' and would insist that this is definitely not the case.
No shirt sponsor, renting two grounds (Marston Road and Valley Road) a minimum £2,500 per week wage bill paid for by a negative income of average 90 gates per home match, with accounts for his season alone allegedly running at -£80k.

So no! Jim Rushe Football Club is not playing very well, it's carrying on where it left off, with more credit and debt.

You reap what you sow, therefore JRFC can expect a harvest of **** come August.

By the way Colin, I have absolutely no idea why you're putting your name to someone else's fabricated bull droppings. You're doing yourself no favours and it's only going to come back and bite you on the bum.

1874 northwich

05/01/2013 tells its fans it had changed its name from northwich victoria supporters association ltd to 1874 northwich football club ltd

19/02/2013 a sgm to take place as it has not changed its name due to the "baffling" laws of the FSA,

To be continued.

So VICS fans who paid in from 2004 until they quit have been duped out of a lot of money, that money now being coined in to start up a 'new' Club that has nowt to do with VICS.
Case for an investigation and refund for those VICS fans?

Highly unlikely that will happen, golden rule, never trust a trust with your money as it can be used for other purposes from what it was originally intended to be used for. Even if i were a still a current trust member, chances of getting any of my money back would be zero as the majority would just vote no, Just glad i never gave it £100.00 which it asked me for at the away match at Corby a few years ago to top up its funds, or that would of been another lot of money down the drain.

All trusts will use funds for what its members decree. I'm sorry you are now in the minority, but the democratic process means that trust funds are used to benefit the majority of members. As the majority of members feel that NVFC is a dead duck, the funds will be used for the future choices of the members.

Lets not forget, all money donated to the Northwich Victoria Supporters TRUST is for the sole purpose of benefiting it MEMBERS in achieving their goals.

If you wanted to give money to the club then why didn't you?

Well i just hope that the same thing happens to you in the future and we will see if you still have a smile on your face. Its not very nice feeling i can assure especially when its people who i trusted and used to be friends with and who are using some of my money to use for their own needs. Keep my money anyway hope it makes you happy. But i can assure if you dwindle it away like what chester have done with the pot of money they had, i shall be very angry, and i have not been angry so far. Anyway i have cancelled my membership off your forum and i will bid you farewell on here. So long. I have learned a valuable lesson, never trust anybody.

I have read the above posts with increasing incredulity. The professed supporters of Northwich Victoria FC are getting very hot under the collar about the efforts of a group of former supporters attempting to launch a new fan-run club by the name of 1874 Northwich FC. They seem determined to find objections to absolutely everything this nascent club does to further its aims of bringing community-orientated football back to the non-Witton half of the town.
To that end they have tried to launch not one but two "rival" supporters' groups, the first under the banner of the mysterious Steven McNally with well-publicised plans to create a super-stadium in Lostock (sadly stymied by the government's HST2 route it would seem); and then the second only recently, as reported elsewhere in this newspaper. The obfuscation in the choice of name for this second group is of course deliberate, as evidenced by the rather lame excuses produced here and elsewhere for the nomenclature.
Then we get a sudden thesis on the nature and purpose of Supporters' Trusts and the purported history of the Northwich Victoria Supporters Trust, which we are led to believe is the heartfelt reaction of "nvfcfan" on reading the above article.
It would be disingenuous to suggest that this post was not worked on in some detail before being submitted. Indeed, it was first submitted to the NVST forum, but I was one of the few who happened to read it before it was removed. Not because it posited unwelcome views (indeed, there have been repeated requests from forum moderators for it to be re-posted under the identity of its real author), but because it was posted using another forum user's identity. As a professional linguist I could cite numerous cogently argued reasons why the supposed forum author (Colin Buckley) did not write the post, but I do not wish to get too far off topic.
Most of the fallacies which make up this particular post have been dealt with by earlier responses, but I would advise the author in future to use more reliable sources for the aims and objectives of Supporters' Trusts in general than wikipedia and the like. I can recommend www.supporters-direc
t.org for example, or even the recently published report of the parliamentary group looking into football governance in the UK. As in many other areas of the game, I fear the FA is blind to some of the realities under its supposed authority, and the case of Northwich Victoria FC and its financial mismanagment in recent years is but one small example of this.
The Supporters' Trust is there to try to ensure the continuity of football within the community - from the community, for the community, with the community. Its members pay to exercise their democratic right to vote on how to achieve these lofty aims.
The clearly defined and externally regulated governance and rules of the NVST will allow members to do whatever the majority of members decide. It will not allow non-members (even ex-members) to determine matters of fundamental import, just as we are not allowed to determine the strategic direction of Tesco's, government involvement in Mali, or even NVFC2007. All organisations, be they commercial companies, public bodies or 'third sector' organisations such as NVST evolve over time, leading to changes in emphasis and principles which then have an unavoidable knock-on effect not only for those directly employed/engaged but also for other stakeholders and even for previously disinterested third parties. For a simple national illustration, look at company pensions. For a local illustration, look at the Cheshire Building Society - once the Northwich B.S. when I first joined it, now a part of the Nationwide group. Decided upon by its members, in a fair and democratic vote.
The members of NVST have held their own vote. They have decided on the future path of their society - the creation of a new club.
For some reason, the supporters of NVFC cannot accept this, and attempts have even already been made to block the progress of the new club by buying up associated website domains. Now, as the new club seeks to break all ties with its tainted past, the furore becomes ever louder again. The FSA have identified a technical change which needs to be made to sever the links with the old club. The NVST have made provisions to put this change into effect - but needs its members to ratify the proposal. And lo and behold, we get a "new supporters' association", a new initiative to "keep the silent majority informed". If I were in the least bit cynical I would suggest that there was a not too distant link there between the two events.
What surprises me most about all of this is that I have it direct from the owner of NVFC2007 in a personal telephone call earlier this month that he has nothing whatsoever against the formation of 1874 Northwich and that he wishes it success (but thinks not). So why can't these remaining NVFC2007 fans share the view of their club's owner and focus on how they might best support their own club rather than decrying the efforts of others? What is it that they are afraid of?

What are the trust afraid off? As soon as the new group made its announcement it came under attack by trust members (please see the below article to highlight that and on your own forum, even a thread was started about it by your members, stating things that are completly untrue. dont you guys have your own organisation/club to concentrate on now.

Also the clubs owner has probably not put any money in to northwich victoria football club supporters trust. I have put alot in over the last 8 years, and now my money is being used for other members personal wishes instead of being used to benefit northwich victoria football club, which is what wrongly now i assumed i was putting my money towards. (a lesson learned) God forbid any organisations who may pump money in to the trust in the future for a specific purpose,

As a crude example, would be if say somebody approached a organisation to maybe put some in to to the trust to be used for the cost of a new ground for example, but then later on members voted to use that money for a new centre forward to help maybe gain promotion, surely there must be a law to prevent that from happening surely.

Anyway the 12 has now become 11 so go and gloat about it on your own forum and be happy.

Your crude example seems to be drawn in part from recent local football history.
Imagine a group of people all paying, say, £12 on the understanding that this money would be split equally between the two organisations participating in a sporting competition on a large field. Now imagine one of those organisations taking all the money and not paying the other, which then quite rightly complains. Then imagine a third organisation, let's call it a Trust, stepping in at the last minute to rescue the first organisation from punitive measures by its regulatory body by ensuring that these debts are paid.

Anyway, the fact remains that NVST is a members' organisation with powers in the hands of its members, as outlined in the governance regulations. Just as I would no longer expect any of the money I have paid in to all versions of and supporters' representatives of NVFC since 1965 to be repaid to me or to be spent only on things that I personally sanction, and just as I can no longer claim or exert any influence over several membership organisations which I am no longer part of, your payments into NVST are a matter of history. So, incidentally, are the many donations from the NVST over the years to NVFC in equipment and kind, donations which were in part paid with your subscriptions (and in part with mine).
You left the NVST when you perceived that it was moving in a direction which you no longer felt able to support. As in all such cases, people are faced with two options when this happens: remain within the organisation to fight your corner, encouraging like-minded individuals to do the same and seeking by the force of your arguments to persuade those of a different view that your approach is the correct one, or leave the organisation and oppose from without. Having tried spectacularly unsuccessfully to adopt the former (largely I suspect because your arguments lacked any persuasive power and failed to convince anyone), you eventually chose the latter option. You must live with the consequences.

P.S. "under attack"?
I think it is more a mixture of bemusement, incredulity and scorn.

The only "attack" is to correct some of the mistruths and fallacies put forward in the long statement beneath the article.

One more point: if an individual gifted a large sum to an organisation towards the purchase of a new facility I would imagine that donation would be bound by restrictive covenants and would then be placed into a ring-fenced account. If not, they would be very naive, as they would have full knowledge of (or at least access to) the rules governing the use of any such donations.
Simple example: look at any hospital for a fund launched for a specific purpose.
I believe there is a "new ground" fund started by Stephen McNally's Supporters' Group. I would expect the registered trustees of this fund to have ensured that any monies deposited in this fund have been ring-fenced and to have made the governance of this fund properly transparent. If so, I am sure it will attract support from those who ascribe to its ideals.
You really ought to focus your attention on positive campaigning FOR your club, publicising all the reasons in favour of people continuing to support NVFC, rather than on negative campaigning against what is currently a tiny little offshoot which has yet to even kick a ball. I repeat: what are you afraid of?

How can you say this:

"As a crude example, would be if say somebody approached a organisation to maybe put some in to to the trust to be used for the cost of a new ground for example, but then later on members voted to use that money for a new centre forward to help maybe gain promotion, surely there must be a law to prevent that from happening surely."


NORTHWICH VICTORIA signed JAMIE RAINFORD just weeks after seeing the CVA ripped up. Did Mr Rushe have any intention of paying those debts or did he hope t write it all off and continue to brag about signing reputable non-league players just so you he can get his egotistical fix.

I can not believe that Colin Buckley is putting his name to these posts. Is he seriously letting someone act on his behalf? He has shown for years he is incapable of acting like a responsible human being and now he stoops to new unfound levels. I bet Jim Rushe is over the moon to have such brain boxes supporting him still.

If for one minute you thought about how the local businesses feel after seeing there livelihood damaged by an outsider Manchester dodgy businessman instead of having lively banter with the players and managers of what used to be OUR BELOVED CLUB you might see that there are matters in life more important than feeling 'in the loop' with 'Ashy' and 'Jimmy Rushe'.

Fine bed fellows.

dralan wrote:
One more point: if an individual gifted a large sum to an organisation towards the purchase of a new facility I would imagine that donation would be bound by restrictive covenants and would then be placed into a ring-fenced account. If not, they would be very naive, as they would have full knowledge of (or at least access to) the rules governing the use of any such donations.
Simple example: look at any hospital for a fund launched for a specific purpose.
I believe there is a "new ground" fund started by Stephen McNally's Supporters' Group. I would expect the registered trustees of this fund to have ensured that any monies deposited in this fund have been ring-fenced and to have made the governance of this fund properly transparent. If so, I am sure it will attract support from those who ascribe to its ideals.
You really ought to focus your attention on positive campaigning FOR your club, publicising all the reasons in favour of people continuing to support NVFC, rather than on negative campaigning against what is currently a tiny little offshoot which has yet to even kick a ball. I repeat: what are you afraid of?

Not sure. Why do your supporters keep going on about nvfc on your forum, I have asked nicely 3 times for you guys to stop and have said no every time, so you cant moan at me for speaking about your club. It works both ways.

The main focus of comments about NVFC2007 relates to the business practices and ethics of the owner - which is what drove a wedge between the fans in the first place. Whether we (as in 1874) like it or not, NVFC2007 is inextricably linked to the formation of our club - indeed for many it is the very reason for its existence.
On this day when Supporters Direct have met with MPs in London to raise concerns generally about football governance and business practices, it is most apposite that we continue to pass comment on aspects of a club that we find (as individuals and taxpayers) objectionable. We also pass comment on many other clubs on the forum, both positive and negative. That is what the forum is for - discussion. I just think that your own efforts would be better spent concentrating on promoting all the positive aspects of supporting NVFC2007. I will leave you to work out what these may be.

Nvfc fan wrote:

dralan wrote:
One more point: if an individual gifted a large sum to an organisation towards the purchase of a new facility I would imagine that donation would be bound by restrictive covenants and would then be placed into a ring-fenced account. If not, they would be very naive, as they would have full knowledge of (or at least access to) the rules governing the use of any such donations.
Simple example: look at any hospital for a fund launched for a specific purpose.
I believe there is a "new ground" fund started by Stephen McNally's Supporters' Group. I would expect the registered trustees of this fund to have ensured that any monies deposited in this fund have been ring-fenced and to have made the governance of this fund properly transparent. If so, I am sure it will attract support from those who ascribe to its ideals.
You really ought to focus your attention on positive campaigning FOR your club, publicising all the reasons in favour of people continuing to support NVFC, rather than on negative campaigning against what is currently a tiny little offshoot which has yet to even kick a ball. I repeat: what are you afraid of?

Not sure. Why do your supporters keep going on about nvfc on your forum, I have asked nicely 3 times for you guys to stop and have said no every time, so you cant moan at me for speaking about your club. It works both ways.

His company just got away without paying £400,000+ of tax scott-free! We have every right as tax payers to discuss the extra burden that his company has put onto tax paying citizens.
That is before we even get into the history and moralities of the company and its negative impact on local economy by non payment of local companies (as witnessed by FOURTEEN County Court Judgements over the two active companies and one more company in liquidation with huge outstanding debts) and the social impact of the loss of sporting facilities by its owner, who through constant misleading statements on the progression of the purchase denied the fans an opportunity to save it.