Northwich Town Council urges 'no' vote on gyratory

12:56pm Tuesday 5th March 2013 in News Photograph of the Author By Gina Bebbington

The proposed Northwich town centre gyratory The proposed Northwich town centre gyratory

AS DECISION day looms for Northwich’s controversial one-way system, town councillors are appealing for it to be axed.

Northwich Town Council fears that the verdict will be given by out-of-town councillors on Cheshire West and Chester Council (CWAC) and wants to make sure its voice is heard.

Speaking at Monday’s town council meeting, Clr Brian Jamieson said: “We asked for a meeting with highways prior to a decision being made and wanted to talk to officers about the consultation.

“We’re not able to do that because they are going to go to members at a CWAC meeting and a decision will be made.

“It’s a fait accompli.

“There’s a lot of people concerned about the gyratory, they genuinely feel it hasn’t made things any better but made things more complicated.

“I propose that we write to CWAC and say that the town council does not want the gyratory implemented and we want the scheme returned to its original state.”

The one-way system was put in place in January 2012 as an 18-month trial.

Highways engineers have put together a report on how the system works and the feedback it has received from the public, which will be considered by CWAC’s ruling executive group before it makes a decision.

This decision will be made at CWAC’s HQ, in Chester, at 5.30pm on Tuesday, March 12.

Clr Jamieson said: “It will be people that probably have never been to Northwich making that decision about the town.

“I used to chair Cheshire County Council meetings and when we talked about Northwich everyone was snoring at the back because they didn’t know where we were talking about.

“People are talking about issues in the town that have never been to Northwich and they will just do it based on a report.”

Comments(42)

100246 says...
1:20pm Tue 5 Mar 13

I aggre with the town council 100%
If this situation is true I'm not surprised the country is in such a mess
Why don't they let the people of Northwich have the vote?

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onered says...
3:49pm Tue 5 Mar 13

The Gyratory System in Northwich was ill conceived, a total waste of PUBLIC FUNDS and should be ditched immediately.

As predicted by the PUBLIC, but not acknowledged by the COUNCIL, EMERGENCY SERVICE VEHICLES have been trapped on the wrong side of the river when one of the Bridges was out of action. During the occasions when Dane Street was flooded and closed off, we witnessed traffic at a standstill or very slow moving around the System, Buses were taking 40+ minutes to get from Davenham to Watling Street. The old System allowed traffic to disperse using several routes.

The Scheme has promoted some very appalling driving behaviour, drivers travelling down Castle Hill in the wrong lane and pushing in across traffic in the correct lane just prior to entering on to The Town Bridge. On the section from The Victoria Bridge to the London Road Traffic Lights, drivers are constantly changing lanes prior to passing through the lights to beat traffic in front of them and returning to their correct lanes after passing through the junction.

Most people using the System have been caught up in a lot more STANDING TRAFFIC, they have had EXTRA TIME and MILEAGE added to their journeys, resulting in more POLLUTION in the TOWN.

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AntiNimby says...
9:24pm Tue 5 Mar 13

How can they make a decision without consulting the Town Council? Cheshire West and Chester must realise despise Northwich. They dump an incinerator on us, the gyratory and now HS2. They do nothing to stop anything detrimental to us.

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Jack Hay says...
1:22pm Wed 6 Mar 13

The people of Northwich had a say via the consultation exercise, but I don't know which way that vote went, does anyone know?

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AntiNimby says...
5:09pm Wed 6 Mar 13

Do you expect tranparency on how the decision was made?

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northwich1972 says...
6:32pm Wed 6 Mar 13

I believe this cost £250k out of our pocket. When the councils realise that it is not their money they are spending. It is as if they have a blank cheque book. Well done cllr Jamieson for speaking up.

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widge says...
6:59pm Wed 6 Mar 13

This morning I was waiting in traffic,stationary, on Castle Street about 25mtrs from Town Bridge which was opening.
As the bridge started to close again an ambulance with blues and twos going came down Winnington Hill and was forced to stop. It obviously couldn't go through to the other bridge due to the gyratory system. Cars near the bridge mounted the kerb enabling the ambulance to be first over when the gates opened.
It was only a delay of about 5 minutes, but that could make a huge difference to the casualty it was carrying.
I believe this to be the most serious result of the system and a pretty good argument for scrapping it.

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widge says...
6:59pm Wed 6 Mar 13

This morning I was waiting in traffic,stationary, on Castle Street about 25mtrs from Town Bridge which was opening.
As the bridge started to close again an ambulance with blues and twos going came down Winnington Hill and was forced to stop. It obviously couldn't go through to the other bridge due to the gyratory system. Cars near the bridge mounted the kerb enabling the ambulance to be first over when the gates opened.
It was only a delay of about 5 minutes, but that could make a huge difference to the casualty it was carrying.
I believe this to be the most serious result of the system and a pretty good argument for scrapping it.

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widge says...
9:10pm Wed 6 Mar 13

Sorry about the repeat!!

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AntiNimby says...
11:55pm Wed 6 Mar 13

@widge We raised the point about the danger to Emergency vehicles some time ago. Not sure it will be raised at the meeting or not. But in a life or death situation it could turn out really bad.

@northwich1972 it was 1/4 of a million before they made the "upgrades" so it's cost more than that so far.

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turtle2 says...
10:20am Thu 7 Mar 13

The old system was a failure and could have traffic heading towards town queuing back a very long way in to Castle. The difference was people were used to it failing.

The new system has reduced some congestion problems but made others worse so a lot of people are complaining because their personal journey is now worse than before.

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turtle2 says...
10:24am Thu 7 Mar 13

@ AntiNimby With the section of London Road between Chesterway and Watling Street being one way towards Watling Street before the gyratory system was introduced there was already a problem where an emergency service vehicle could be stuck one side of an open bridge with nowhere to go. The gyratory system has moved the existing problem to somewhere else not created a new problem.

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onered says...
10:29am Thu 7 Mar 13

Prior to this new System the Emergency Services were able to use either Bridge, now there is no alternative when a Bridge opens but to stay stuck on the wrong side of the River.

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turtle2 says...
10:47am Thu 7 Mar 13

@onered Not entirely true. If an ambulance heading to the infirmary or a police car leaving the police station went straight on towards Town Bridge at the lights at the junction of Chesterway and Watling St, they could NOT turn up London Road and use the Hayhurst bridge if they found Town Bridge beginning to open as the section of London Road between the two has always been one way as I pointed out in my earlier post.

Also when there was 2 way traffic on the bridges a Fire engine quite often had to wait for a bus or lorry stuck in queuing traffic in the other direction to get moving before the Fire engine could get past them due to the narrow nature of the bridges.

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widge says...
11:31am Thu 7 Mar 13

In your scenario Turtle, correct. However, if they turned right before approaching the Bull Ring, they could have used Hayhurst Bridge.

In my (actual) scenario from the Winnington side of Town Bridge, prior to the Gyratory the ambulance could easily have diverted up Castle Street to Hayhurst and continued.

There are always going to be pros and cons on this one!

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turtle2 says...
11:47am Thu 7 Mar 13

@widge You mean left. If they turned right there may then be more emergency service vehicles required!

When the bridge had just opened there wouldn't be a queue of traffic, so presumably an ambulance heading for the infirmary would have gone for Town Bridge previously unless it was obvious that there was congestion that way.

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100246 says...
12:32pm Thu 7 Mar 13

Three weeks ago Hayhurst bridge closes, traffic comes to a stand still for well over 10 minutes with no alternative route. In amongst the traffic was a ambulance with its blue lights flashing Please see sense and lets have two way traffic over both bridges

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widge says...
12:56pm Thu 7 Mar 13

@widge You mean left. If they turned right there may then be more emergency service vehicles required!

I can't argue with you on that one turtle!!

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Anonamatty says...
12:59pm Thu 7 Mar 13

I remember sitting in many a traffic jam looking at the police station/Victoria club/Seafarer going back to Winnington from town, or further back seeing speedsters darting passed the paddling pool & courthouse in the hope of beating the jam. I have seen cars queueing from M & S car park waiting to get out of town.

I have seen half a dozen bumps(maybe more than that actually) at the mini roundabout by town bridge and untold numbers of roadrage incidents there due to so many not knowing their right from left. Arriving at the lodge from Barnton to sit in a long queue right up to the bridge was the norm.

I also recall many jams going through kingsmead/Art college heading into town. This was regular.

I no longer seem to experience delays anywhere near this long. The system works very well. Please keep it.

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Soth2013 says...
9:53pm Thu 7 Mar 13

Lets face it this new gyratory system has been a total disaster I was in the massive traffic jam on Tuesday afternoon for half a hour and I was only coming from greenbank and this has happened more than a dozen times. And the issue with the emergency vehicles being in standing traffic for 5/10 minutes is just not acceptable. The only answer is a new road into northwich which includes a new river crossing.

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47thmoon says...
1:49pm Fri 8 Mar 13

Didn't the Tories promise us a new bridge from Leicester Street to Winnington would be built to relieve congestion if they won the last election - where is it?

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patrickp says...
8:43pm Fri 8 Mar 13

turtle2 wrote:
The old system was a failure and could have traffic heading towards town queuing back a very long way in to Castle. The difference was people were used to it failing.

The new system has reduced some congestion problems but made others worse so a lot of people are complaining because their personal journey is now worse than before.
Do i hear the silent majority

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patrickp says...
8:45pm Fri 8 Mar 13

Anonamatty wrote:
I remember sitting in many a traffic jam looking at the police station/Victoria club/Seafarer going back to Winnington from town, or further back seeing speedsters darting passed the paddling pool & courthouse in the hope of beating the jam. I have seen cars queueing from M & S car park waiting to get out of town.

I have seen half a dozen bumps(maybe more than that actually) at the mini roundabout by town bridge and untold numbers of roadrage incidents there due to so many not knowing their right from left. Arriving at the lodge from Barnton to sit in a long queue right up to the bridge was the norm.

I also recall many jams going through kingsmead/Art college heading into town. This was regular.

I no longer seem to experience delays anywhere near this long. The system works very well. Please keep it.
:-) i am not alone

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onered says...
12:23am Sat 9 Mar 13

Its an absolute nightmare for the Bus drivers having to use Castle Street, turning left to go up Winnington Hill and turning right on to the Town Bridge, its impossible to make their turns from the correct lane. They block Castle Street until Winnington Hill and the Bridge are clear. There are no Bus Stops from Castle until Watling Street, the Stops opposite Navigation Road and O/S the old Regal have not been replaced with one near to Verdin Park.

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L Byrne says...
11:19am Sat 9 Mar 13

Why is the council not making the engineers' report available to the public before a decision is made?

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Jazzanova says...
6:12pm Sat 9 Mar 13

47thmoon wrote:
Didn't the Tories promise us a new bridge from Leicester Street to Winnington would be built to relieve congestion if they won the last election - where is it?
This is really the only solution to relieving the bottleneck of traffic through Northwich town centre, but I cannot see that a new bridge at the other side of the town is likely to be ever built.

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Colin 1953 says...
10:47am Sun 10 Mar 13

I like the gyratory - I use it everyday and while I was hoping it would work a lot better than it does, overall there are less queues and it's quicker. I hope that the council think about the silent majority rather than the moaning lot on here. Ok, it's not perfect and I do wonder if engineers have thought about anything else but I don't know what else the council could do. A new bridge? - cloud cuckoo land in these times.

Has anybody actually bothered to read the engineers report before commenting? I have and L Byrne is wrong when he says that it is not available before the decision is made - it's on the council's website.

Northwich Town Council are a waste of space and are spouting off without knowing any facts - is this because they are mainly a different political party and out to score points? If you read the other articles here, Cllr Jamieson and others have just decided that the public will fund their council to go to a knees-up in Ireland rather than buy defibrillators for the town. We are paying taxes for these people to be in charge - are they really worth listening to?

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onered says...
11:37am Sun 10 Mar 13

The debate of contributing to the costs of fighting the Waste Incinerator or providing Defibrillators is a decision for the CWaC Councillors, the money will come out of the £10,000 allocated to each CWaC Councillor to use as they wish within the Community. The Northwich Town Councillors have no involvement in these arrangements.

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onered says...
11:42am Sun 10 Mar 13

I feel the money required to send representatives to Ireland would be much better spent on providing Defibrillators and it would be received far better by the Public.

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Soth2013 says...
5:46pm Sun 10 Mar 13

The old road system was better, much better! than what we have now! It was a more balanced road system (not perfect) but it worked! and the reason why the new road system doesn't work better is that it was a floored scheme right from the start and most of northwich knows it! The new gyratory has created road traffic queues which were not there before to a scale that people just don't want to come to northwich anymore.

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100246 says...
9:03pm Sun 10 Mar 13

This is the link to the report which will be presented at the meeting

http://cmttpublic.ch
eshirewestandchester
.gov.uk/documents/s2
9500/Northwich%20Gyr
atory%20System.pdf

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100246 says...
9:39pm Sun 10 Mar 13

Sorry if the above didn't work but try this one I got off CWACC web site under the heading meetings/agendas

http://cmttpublic.ch
eshirewestandchester
.gov.uk/documents/s2
9501/Northwich%20Gyr
atory%20Traffic%20Da
ta%20and%20Consultat
ion%20Feedback%20Rep
ort.pdf

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AntiNimby says...
12:07am Mon 11 Mar 13

"Based on the traffic survey information and public consultation feedback
contained in the background document, it is recommended that the trial
system should be installed on a permanent basis supported by a permanent Traffic Regulation Order."

"The customer feedback questionnaire results confirm that there is an
approximate balance of support for the scheme as there are both objections and comments in support. The majority of the specific reasons stated for objection were addressed in the changes made in August 2012."

"There have been a total of 260 enquiries between the start of the scheme
and the changes made in August 2012. The can be summarised as follows
• 202 complaints
• 20 in favour of scheme
• 38 requesting more information
These 202 complaints are categorised as follows:-
Traffic congestion/longer queues - 110
Affecting businesses - 7
Perceived waste of money - 13
Lane swapping - 22
Speeding - 18
Safety (vehicle + pedestrian) - 28
Other – 4"

"Since August, there have been total of 29 enquiries. These can be
summarised as follows
• 27 complaints
• 1 in favour of scheme"



Where are they getting the idea that this is supported from? They have also decided the objections have been addressed!

Total stitch up!

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AntiNimby says...
12:17am Mon 11 Mar 13

Face to Face interviews in August 50% No, 43% Yes

All reponses 55% NO 40% Yes.


Can someone please explain how 43 and 40% are the winning categories?

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AntiNimby says...
12:23am Mon 11 Mar 13

From CWACs own report "Taking everything into account, do you think that Northwich should continue with the Gyratory system?"
54% said No, 37% said yes.

From CWACs own report "Taking everything into account, do you think that Northwich should continue with the Gyratory system?"
54% said No, 37% said yes.

Recommendations:
"Based on the traffic survey information and public consultation feedback
contained in the background document, it is recommended that the trial
system should be installed on a permanent basis supported by a permanent
Traffic Regulation Order."

That's democracy.

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AntiNimby says...
12:27am Mon 11 Mar 13

PS the link takes some finding:

GO here and search for gyratory

http://cmttpublic.ch
eshirewestandchester
.gov.uk/ieDocSearch.
aspx

Thanks to 100246 for this.

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AntiNimby says...
12:37am Mon 11 Mar 13

Since the gyratory system has been introduced, there have been a total 15
collisions. 5 of these collisions are associated with the gyratory scheme .

There were 16 collisions over a 3 year
period prior to commencement."

So it is unsafe then, the collision rate has more than doubled!

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AntiNimby says...
12:58am Mon 11 Mar 13

Just digesting this discrace!

If I were summarising the report based on what it contains it would go something like this. The accident rate in the town seems to have trebbled since the Gyratory was introduced, expected we would have just over 5 a year or 16 in 3years we have had 15 between Jan 12 and Feb 13. The average speed has risen in many cases to above the legal limit. The Majority of repondents to the surveys did not want the Gyratory nor throught the improvements had worked. It is not popular with the public nor is it safe.

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Daniel18 says...
10:39am Tue 12 Mar 13

Colin 1953,

I totally agree with you, the new system works really well - the only problems we ever encounter are other drivers who ignore the road signs and try to switch lanes on Town Bridge for no apparent reason.

I do agree that it is hard for buses and lorries to turn up Winnington Hill and onto Town Bridge - but to be honest it was the same before the one-way scheme was implemented - and half of the lorries that I have seen travelling through the town centre should not be allowed - many of them have to drive in the middle of the bridges due to their height - meaning that if the bridges were two way, as they were, it would simply stop traffic in both directions.

I do think that many people have forgotten what the traffic use to be like – I remember many times queuing up Castle Hill and Winnington Hill to get into town – whatever the council decide it is never going to be perfect and whether people like it or not there will always be traffic jams – whether these be one-way or two-way jams!

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AntiNimby says...
11:38am Tue 12 Mar 13

It makes winnington hill less busy but Castle street is as bad as ever. What I have noticed is the traffic from Leftwich into town in much worse. Whatever jams we used to have, we have options, you could take several routes to get where you were going. Only a few weeks ago, I wanted to get to the area near the police Station. The road past the old regal was closed, as it often is when the road floods. It was gridlock as everyone had to go via Castle street. In the old days one simply would have turn right at the lights and been there in a few hundred yards. It's not popular with the public (as can be seen in every survey they have done). The accident rate has trebbled, and there are more cars breaking the speed limit (in the appendix of the report). The report is so biased in its conclusions it is untrue.

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True Local Government says...
4:29pm Tue 12 Mar 13

You have to laugh at the irony - Mr Jamieson and nearly half the Town Council don't live in Northwich either but feel able to spend other people's money on their own daft schemes.

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Daniel18 says...
6:22pm Tue 12 Mar 13

Breaking news - The council has voted for the gyratory system to be made permanent.

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